Berks and Bays

[dak580]

G'day guys

Can any members with knowledge of these 2 badges help me out by telling me if they are genuine or reproduction?

Thanks for any information you can give one way or the other.
John

[Alan O]

I would not have either in my collection.

The Berks Yeo is a much faked badge as it had a relatively short use from 1908 until the BY adopted the RA badge post WW1 with their conversion to artillery role. They did not readopt the wonky donkey until late WW2 and then not universally. The copies are quite good matches but I do not like the detail or lugs.

The majority of the Bays were still wearing k/c brass badges on amalgamation although q/c a/a were on issue to new recruits. There is a thread on the forum with a picture of a brass Gaunt London badge which came form the regt's QM stores. It's possible that these were around but not in widespread use. Either way yours appears to be a modern version.

Alan

[dak580]

Thanks Alan

I had doubts about the Bays but the Berks I didn't know.

Many thanks again
John

[matti467]

I have had many a Berks Yeo badge over the years and certain ones ring bells immediately, especially the WM IY badge.
When I buy them I loog for OSD badges and good heavy gauge gilt with three lugs. Not dsying two lugs are bad!
Just pick over them and look for good rear detail too.

[dak580]

Thanks Matti for the very good tips.

I'm also looking for the a/a version of the Berks.

Saw a few on ebay a couple of years ago but they only sold to buyers in the UK. I have now sorted out that problem but have not seen another a/a since.

Cheers
John

[sketchley kid]

I served in the Bays but left to join KDG in 1947.......I have a large collection of Bays bits...including a few QC......but they have no voiding where the leaf tips join the crown as yours has.........I have contacted a Bay's mate who served up to amalgamation re QC issue....yours does surprise me though as it does not have a reinforcing wire at base of crown and leaf join which all Bays had in my time.

[sketchley kid]

dac580.........Bays QC as issued ...........no voiding at crown.

[sketchley kid]

I have just received answer from Bays mate who served in the years pre amalgamation about QC badges being issued and were the majority wearing KC.........his answer was.....
"The regulars kept their KC's, but the fresh intakes got the QC's
without a doubt, I spent hours bulling them up".
My mate Ron was demobbed two days after amalgamation so did not join QDG.
PS Your Bays badge would not have lasted long before the crown and slider broke off.........like the gaunt badge pictured.

[dak580]

Hi Sketchley

Thank you for this excellent information.

So would it be correct to say that all original Q/C Bays badges should have a reinforcing wire at the crown and should not have any voids around the leaves? I also see your example does not have a makers mark was this normal for that time?

I have attached pictures of my K/C Bays badge with reinforcing wire but you can see it is voided where the leaves meet the crown so is this correct for K/C badges?

Also a question about the word 'BAYS' I have seen examples with the letters completely fretted, examples with the letters semi fretted and examples with the entire letters in solid brass.

Is this just manufactures choice or is there a reason for these different styles being one is more like original than the rest?

Thanks
John

[sketchley kid]

The QC Bays did NOT need a wire as there was no void between leaves & crown.
The KC badge had the wire......the KC badge pictured with red patch and backing plate was mine as issued.....(1946) all of this period were voided and wired.
The broken one I pictured has a Gaunt tag but I do not have the date of this pattern nor have I seen another badge the same....been after one for years.
None of this time had makers marks.....I have about 30 and none are marked.
I have to say that your badge with wire looks dodgy.
Re the word just manufactures choice.....more so on collar dogs.
PS and we did not wear the black beret and red badge backing until mid 1946.

[sketchley kid]

My original