Legion of Frontiersmen

[Alan O]

Original text by Dragonz:

25th Batn. Royal (Frontiersmen) Fusiliers.
Formed ,initially ,from members of the 'Legion of Frontiersmen'. A semi-military organisation, that were virtually trained already. Personal from this organisation were the first in action,with a squadron of Cavalry (Manchester Sqd.) fighting ,in Legion uniform, with the 3rd Belgian Lancers,very early in 1914, before their offer of trained soldiers was finally accepted by the British Government.

1st pattern ,made using a standard, but specific version, Grenadier Guards badge ,inscribed with the Btn's number and a title scroll made & attached by a local garage,according to Regts. history.

1. Front view
2. Back view
3. Angled view of back,showing construction method here.

This is my one - despite the dealers views I now think it may be an old copy.

Alan

[dragonz18]

Alan,
Pics of my badge here. Different to yours in many respects, so worth showing, I think.
This could be termed as ...2nd Pattern ,type 1. As there are 2 known types, as am sure you are aware. The second type being the similar one, with a 'stalk' or 'bar' lifting the ball off the scroll & flames not connected to upper side scrolls. Shown in K&K and in Westlake's 'Kitchener's Army' book.( I do'nt have this type 2 variation,to show, or the Die Cast [?]Bronzed version of type 1 either, yet ! ) Anyone able to show examples of these here ?
The General shape of the flames , etc on mine looks a little closer to those shown in the origional photos ( for the o/r's pictured in Westlakes, at least, but not the big detail pics. though ?) that I have seen,so far , but there could be a few different manufactures here ,I guess ? See what you think.
Comments ,either good or bad ,accepted gratiously.
Hard to see in these pics ,but the numbers have close set ,fine, horizontal lines struck inside them.Front has had a thin laquer coating.

Cheers !
Steve

[Alan O]

I prefer yours because it does not have the die flaw on the scroll and has a much better style of slider.

I have seen a cast version of this design with a pin for wear on a pagri. The 25th spent most of their war in SW Africa if I remember correctly. I always presume dthat the stalk version was this cast version as it looks a bit home made.

Alan

[dragonz18]

My pic of the back of a bronzed cast type 1: it has a series of grooves across the back of the scroll, that I have seen on actual items also.

Not really sure where I got these from now, but may have been from Ebay. If so ,my sincerest thanks to those concerned & hope it's OK to post them here, for observation, by genuinely interested collectors.?

Pattern 2 ,type 1.....bronze die cast version. Officers or Senior NCO's here, possibly.?
Well made & have seen others the same, that are claimed as genuine, but cannot be certain of this, myself.
Also not too sure of the reason for the back 'grooves', but may have been to facilitate shaping of the scroll on the headress.?
The general shape/style is the same as the die struck one ,shown above by Alan.

Cheers !
Steve

[alan g]

Thought i would post pictures of my badges which I believe to be genuine ,any comments would be appreciated.
I paid £350 for the first pattern and £150 for the second still trying to find a genuine 3rd pattern

[Sonofacqms]

Having looked at various Frontiersmen badges, a thing that puzzles me is, what happened to the "Imperial Frontiersmen". I have two examples of this cap badge, collars, s/titles and buttons. Was this the same organisation of big game hunters and adventurers that paid for their passage to France and were the first British troops in action or a different outfit altogether.
There is a book of which the title escapes me, written by a General, showing a squadron of Belgian cavalry passing an armed "Boy Scout", so the caption reads. The Frontiersmen always were a shadowy organisation so I guess a guy wearing a Lemon squeezer hat was lucky he was not titled as a "KIWI".

Seriously has anyone any explanation on the Imperial Frontiersmen.

[Voltigeur]

Hi sonofacqms, I was just reading your post in passing and that got me going. I found this excerpt on the Frontiersmen from the web. Hoping this will help a bit.
Jo
http://www.frontiersmenhistorian.info/firstwar.htm

[4966Ian]

Hi there,

First post, so please be gentle.

A little bit off-topic, so hope you will excuse it, but hopefully still relevant to the Frontiersmen.
I have had the following lapel/button-hole badge in my collection for quite a while. I have always assumed (probably wrongly) that it was for the Frontiersmen. On the basis that it looks exactly likethe enamel badge in the 3rd pattern cap badge (KK1144). It has the motto "GOD GUARD THEE"
As you can see from the pictures, it looks to have a very nice gilt and enamel finish. It is 16mm in diameter. It also has stamped on the reverse the numbers "21245", which I always took to be the last 5 digits of the wearers army nos. which I promised myself I would research when time was available. (Nope still haven't got round to it).

Regards

Ian

[iaindh]

Overall an interesting thread, thx all. Reading up on the 25th, it was quite interesting that Frederick Selous served as a Captain and became 2IC; he was killed in 1917 whilst serving in the unit. Rider Haggard based his Quartermain character on Selous and the famous Rhodesian Selous Scouts were named after him
Incidentally they served in German East Africa, Tanjanika.

Iain

[Neil Pearce]

It's great to see these pictures posted. I have been scouring the earth looking for one of these, and thus far, no luck.

Does anyone have a picture of an "officers" enamel version as shown in K&K? I would be interested to learn when this dates from....

[dragonz18]

Just thought I'd post a couple of versions of the 3rd pattern, for comment & to keep the interest going & see what might turn up here also.

A pair of collars also

Cheers
Steve

[SHAW]

Thease are Genuine ones, The 2nd one as God Guard Thee in the centre of the Cross.

[SHAW]

Sorry about last one but i am a learner, Thease have been in my family as long as i can remember, I started collecting with my own badge in 1947 after my demob. Note the voids

[SHAW]

I will master it and get the hang of putting picts on

[ncc]

thanks to grumpys interpretation of gamages catalogue,it must be almost certain that the garage version is a ww1 made unofficial badge;
borne out by the photo of it being worn by the soldier posted to the battalion after 1916 not being able to get a 25th badge and bending the scroll up to look more like the real thing,
its still a rare and interesting piece of ww1 history that actually went to war.
perhaps 'garage' and 'gamage' were lost in translation over the years,especially if you were ask where you got your badge from in the pub.
Bob