Metal SAS Wings

[popskipa]

Hello,

Questions for the forum please...

When were the metal tropical SAS wings introduced, for Malaya?

When did they go out of use?

Why are there both brass and white metal types?

Thank you, Keith

[grey_green_acorn]

Previously discussed in this thread: http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ight=Singleton

Tim

[JerryBB]

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

Previously discussed in this thread: http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ight=Singleton

Tim

and here

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...light=tropical

[Mike B]

Hi Keith
I just took a look at Edwards and Langley - British Army Proficiency Badges and find the badge (not sure if gilding metal or white metal) illustrated as 113A. Information is very thin. (see pages 98-99) Regarding: the 'left breast' / Arm badge reference is made to ACI 955/1948 (worn earlier) - I have a feeling this does not relate to the metal wing but thought I would note it.
Hopefully a more informed specialist will comment.
All the best
Mike

I see experts have in deed commented in the time it took me to post this - great forum!

[popskipa]

Thank you for the links and information

So in summary, the brass wing was officially sanctioned and appears as a sealed pattern 19.9.1956. Also it has been seen by a forum member in wear.

Some speculation about the white metal wing being Australian, but no official confirmation. Still remains a mystery.

The sealed date entry in Edwards and Langley would appear to relate to the cloth embroidered SAS wings.

Keith

[Mike B]

Edwards and Langley interpretation correct I believe even though both cloth and metal are illustrated (Cloth is Edwards and Langley reference No113, metal is 113A).
Regards
Mike

[pontecagnano]

There is also a gold anodised version (pics attached) although these are quite scarce. I read on another forum that these are referenced in Edwards and Langley but don't have a copy to hand to confirm this.

Graham

[sapper533]

Might the WM wing have been worn on tropical kit by someone who was parachute qualified but back with his Light Infantry regiment?

[Mike B]

Graham
Denis came to see me when selling the second edition of his book. He was doing a tour of Military Museums etc to find sales outlets. As you suggest, there is an Appendices of 'colour and material variations' of proficiency badges (pages 143-148). Under 113A, i.e. SAS wing, the entry is: Lt Blue/W/Bl (two patterns), Br, G-Anod, G/S/Bl, G/S/Sc
The key to colour abbreviations used in the appendices include:
Lt - Light
W- White
Bl - Black
Br - Brass
G - Gold
Anod - Anodised (aluminium)
S - Silver
Sc - Scarlet
I Just checked and notice the same entries are noted in the first edition Appendix.
Mike

[pontecagnano]

Thank you for the excellent information as always Mike.

Another possible explanation for the white metal variant is that it was intended for wear by 21 SAS, who have Rifle Brigade antecedents, but was never adopted let alone worn. The example display of 21 SAS badges referred to by Johan in a previous thread certainly shows no evidence of this.

I've had a quick check and find that I have at least 20 variants of this badge. These include stamped and solid backed examples in brass, brass plate, nickel plate, gold plate and white metal with round lugs and 'D' lugs in copper. I also have two variations of the backing brass plate which always appears to me to be a slightly extravagant design for a military contract as the serrated effect, to match the wing's feathers, would be more costly to produce. I have always wondered if this only appears on commercial copies.

It would be very interesting if someone has a sealed pattern for the brass wing to use as a baseline for comparison.

Having examined all of mine in more detail I would be wary of any wings with:

1) A solid, or semi solid back.
2) Plating.
3) A serrated backing plate.
4) Round, rather than 'D' lugs.
5) Lugs that are not centred at 1 3/16 inches apart.

That isn't to say that wings that don't meet the above criteria are copies rather that they do not conform to the pattern of most known originals.

I've attached a few more wings - three photos of each - and two examples of backing plates. The only wing I like is the third one which is white metal.

Wing 1 - This is gold plated and has unusual lug spacing. I recall an explanation that it was a private purchase initiative by the Rhodesian SAS at the end of the Bush War when it wasn't possible to obtain miniature bullion Mess Dress wings. I'm not aware of any corroborating evidence of this but know the source of the wing and the explanation so can follow this up out of interest.

Wing 2 - This looks like a typical wing but is brass plated with a slight tarnish. It is slightly thicker than a typical brass wing and the detail isn't very well defined.

Wing 3 - This is the oldest looking white metal variant I have and is identical to brass examples that are believed to be original. It has 'D' lugs and is very well struck with crisp detail on both sides.

Wing 4 - This is a solid backed moulding with round lugs. It looks very old and convincing but I also have another identical wing with brass plating on the same colour as Wing 2 which may not be a good portent of either wing's authenticity.

I think this thread has probably raised more questions than it has answered so far but it would be good to discover more about the tropical SAS wing as most SAS collectors have at least one. For me, clarification of the original pattern(s) is key together with a clearer understanding of the authenticity and purpose of the white metal variants.

Graham

[badjez]

Ordnance List of Changes dated 30.04.57. C8038.

Badges, Arm. Parachute with wings.
GM (S.A.S. Regt) (With back plate and pin) (Cat No CB 7509).
Introduction.
A pattern (No 17228) of the above-mentioned item has been sealed to govern future manufacture and is hereby introduced for wear by personnel of the Special Air Service Regt.
The design, in gilding metal, is a parachute with a wing on each side.

30.11.58. C8864.
Badges, Arm.
Parachute with wings. S.A.S.
Gold and silver. Blue (Cat No CB 8165).
Introduction.
A pattern (No 17681) of the above-mentioned item has been sealed to govern future manufacture and is hereby introduced for wear on No1 Dress by parachutists of the Special Air Service Regt.
The badge has a gold embroidered parachute in the centre with a silver wing on either side, on a background of dark blue cloth.

As neither entry refers to previous patterns being obsolete/ obsolescent I presume that previous badges of this nature had been unofficial, in so much as Ordnance had not made prior provision for them.

Stephen

I've just looked at SAS Regimental Dress Regs 1957.

"No1 Dress SAS Parachute Badge with Wings.
Will be the War Office sealed pattern. The badge manufactured by Messrs Hobson & Sons, 1/5 Lexington St, W1 is the approved pattern for officers. The badge will be worn on the right arm by all qualified parachutists. The distance from the top of the sleeve to the top of the badge will be two inches."

Under instructions relating to battledress the Regs add 'They will be sewn on the centre line of the sleeve'.

Under instructions relating to Denison Smocks the Regs add 'The SAS Wings worn three inches from the point of the right shoulder by all qualified parachutists.'

With modified Tropical Mess Dress 'the No1 Dress parachute wings will be worn, sewn or fixed to the right sleeve by studs, by all qualified parachutists. The distance from the top of the sleeve to the top of the parachute will be three inches." For KD or OG Bush Jackets, and Service Dress the instructions were the same.
Further information under 'Miscellaneous items' refers to SAS Wings again 'SAS Wings will be worn by all qualified parachutists on the right arm. The only exception to this are those officers and men who have been given permission to wear the wings on the left breast.'

[badjez]

Regarding Sealed Patterns: National Army Museum, Stevenage holds the following, but they don't allow them to be photographed!
NOTE- they are all UN-SEALED CARDS

1) SAS Regt (The Artists Rifles) un-sealed card pencil dated 23.11.61.
- Bullion embroidered padded winged dagger.

2) SAS Regt (The Artists Rifles) un-sealed card pencil dated 01.11.61.
- headdress badge missing
- Collar badge is a small winged dagger with single lug. Metal?
- Metal shoulder title curved ‘ARTISTS’
- Embroidered Arm Title (sky blue on maroon) ‘SPECIAL AIR SERVICE/
(ARTIST). (two rows of lettering)

3) SAS Regt (The Artists Rifles) un-sealed card dated 17.09.56.
- Forage cap badge missing- holes indicate 2 lug fittings.
- Beret badge- an oval embroidered winged dagger.
- Collar badges for No1 & No3 Dress- silver winged dagger.

4) SAS parachute qualification wings:
- Bullion Mess Dress
- No1 Dress
- No3 Dress & Tropical Dress metal
- Battle Dress.

[badjez]

Further info on wings:
19.09.56. D of A&S wrote to COD, Branston: metal Parachute Badges for wear with No3 Dress had been approved as suitable for SAS Regt. Introduction was to be arranged.

The War Office Dress Committee have also considered SAS wings.

24.09.57. At the 103rd Meeting of the WODC, the Committee agreed to approve the finished samples of Mess Dress patterns of Skill-at-Arms Badges, Parachute with wings, SAS: the parachute in silver wire embroidery and the wings in gold wire embroidery on either a dark blue or a scarlet cloth backing, for wear by Officers on No10 Temperate, and No11 Tropical Mess Dress. Also with a dark blue cloth backing for wear by WO & Sgt on No10 Temperate, and No11 Tropical Mess Dress, to be provided as an optional item of Dress at individual expense.

02.08.80. At the 253rd Meeting of the ADC, the Committee decided to approve the following qualification badges, awarded in perpetuity, to be worn with No14 Dress Shirt Sleeve Order:
Para Badge with Wings- Right sleeve.
Parachute Wings, SAS Badge- Right sleeve.
Army Flying Badge/ Army Air Gunners badge/ Army Air Observation Badge- left breast.
Air Despatch Badge, Chief Engineers badge, Ocean Watchkeepers Badge- Left sleeve.
Ammunition Technical Officers, Ammunition Qualified OEOs, Ammunition Technicians- Right sleeve.
Army Divers badge, Parachute Badge- Not worn with Shirt Sleeve Order.

Reference had been made to some Officers and men being allowed to wear wings on their breast (as Army Flying badge etc)
See attached photo which is extracted from Formation Sign issue 139 (Is the Mike Jackson referred to one of our fellow members or his namesake with slightly higher rank?).

Stephen.

[Mike B]

Graham
Very interesting variants - far more than I was aware of and very useful explanation/thoughts. Good clear images too - always very important.

Stephen
Great to have this excellent research logged on the forum - it is a very comprehensive record that will help everyone here.

Keith
Thanks for starting this thread - a very useful source of information has resulted - with useful links to previous threads and new information

Regards
Mike