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  #1  
Old 07-06-17, 12:40 PM
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Default F.A.A

showing my ignorance, but would I be correct in assuming this patch to be associated with the Fleet Air Arm ? thanking contributor (s) in advance
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Old 08-06-17, 06:38 AM
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This is an unofficial badge associated with the Fleet Air Arm during the Second World War. In 1943 Naval Artificer Apprentices serving with the Fleet Air Arm were found to be wearing the letters 'F.A.A.' in gold on their left cuff. This carried on the tradition of the 'RNAS' badge which was also worn on the left cuff. However, these badges were worn without the permission of the Admiralty and ratings wearing unauthorised badges faced disciplinary action. No action was taken during the war but the Admiralty eventually put a stop to the practice in 1948.

A number of unauthorised sleeve badges were commercially produced during the Second World War, including Royal Naval Patrol Service badges bearing the letters 'RNP' and 'RNPS'. Again no action was taken over the wearing of unauthorised badges until 1948.

It should be remembered that some sleeve badges consisting of letters were authorised and officially issued during the war - these included those for the RNVR, RNR, RNVWR and SBR.

Pete
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Old 08-06-17, 11:12 AM
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spot on !
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Old 08-06-17, 12:37 PM
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Interesting information.

How was the action taken in 1948 put into effect? Published as an Admiralty Fleet Order or some other means?

Jon
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  #5  
Old 08-06-17, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guzzman View Post
This is an unofficial badge associated with the Fleet Air Arm during the Second World War. In 1943 Naval Artificer Apprentices serving with the Fleet Air Arm were found to be wearing the letters 'F.A.A.' in gold on their left cuff. This carried on the tradition of the 'RNAS' badge which was also worn on the left cuff. However, these badges were worn without the permission of the Admiralty and ratings wearing unauthorised badges faced disciplinary action. No action was taken during the war but the Admiralty eventually put a stop to the practice in 1948.

A number of unauthorised sleeve badges were commercially produced during the Second World War, including Royal Naval Patrol Service badges bearing the letters 'RNP' and 'RNPS'. Again no action was taken over the wearing of unauthorised badges until 1948.

It should be remembered that some sleeve badges consisting of letters were authorised and officially issued during the war - these included those for the RNVR, RNR, RNVWR and SBR.

Pete
always willing to purchase books, is this information available in published form ?
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Old 08-06-17, 01:09 PM
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Does anyone know if the Fleet Air Arm ever had a brass FAA shoulder title?
Ray
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Old 08-06-17, 05:11 PM
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I'll do my best to answer the above questions!

Firstly re changes to badges in 1948. Numerous changes to non-substantive badges took place between 1930-45 (and especially during the war years), with old badges being modernised and many new badges being added as the trade groups were expanded to meet the needs of a rapidly changing Navy. During the war additional badges were introduced, such as those for boom defence (1941) and combined operations (1942).

During the war each branch had developed its own badges in its own fashion and the crowns and stars of one had not necessarily the same meaning as they had for another. There were some branches in which the same basic badge was worn without addition by all members of the branch. This, coupled with the various unofficial badges adopted during the war (such as the 'F.A.A.' badge) meant that by the immediate post-war period the entire system of non-substantive badges for ratings was immensely complex and confusing.

In 1948 an attempt was made to clarify the situation. Unofficial badges which had been tolerated during the war were no longer to be allowed. Perhaps it was felt that if disciplinary action against ratings wearing unofficial badges was taken during the war it could have been detrimental to morale? At the same time attempts were made to rationalise the meaning of additional crowns and stars throughout the Navy. Several designs of badges which were to be introduced were withdrawn prior to issue.

I presume that at least one AFO would have been issued in order to clarify the situation. I will have to check through my reference material to see what I can find. Unfortunately much of it is in boxes at the moment as I'm redecorating the room I keep it and my collection in!

Useful books? I recommend 'Royal Navy Uniforms 1930-1945' by Martin J. Brayley, published by the Crowood Press Ltd in 2014. There is also the classic 'Badges & Insignia of the British Armed Services' by W.E. May, W.Y. Carman and J.L. Tanner (May is responsible for the naval section of the book), published byA. C Black Limited in 1974. The problem with the latter book is that it is now rather dated and much more research has been undertaken on RN badges since then and some of the information is rather inaccurate. To some collectors stating that May can be wrong is tantamount to heresy, but it is still an excellent volume as long as you don't take everything May says as gospel. It's simply that a long time has passed since he wrote his work and we have discovered more information since.

Re the FAA brass shoulder title. I have never come across one or any reference to one in connection to the Fleet Air Arm of the Royal Navy. I don't know if such a title was ever worn by the Fleet Air Arms of the Royal Australian Navy or the Royal Canadian Navy.

I will endeavour to find some more information re the 1948 changes to badges as soon as I can access my reference material and books!

Pete

Last edited by Guzzman; 08-06-17 at 05:12 PM. Reason: duplication of text!
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  #8  
Old 09-06-17, 03:25 PM
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I have a brass FAA title which came in an eclectic mix of stuff. Cannot post picture yet as away from home
Can't think of what the initials would refer to other than Fleet Air Arm
Ray
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  #9  
Old 11-06-17, 07:45 AM
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Have attached pictures of the brass FAA title - close up and qith others for size reference.
Does anyone have any idea what this may be if not Fleet Air Arm?
Ray
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  #10  
Old 13-06-17, 08:08 AM
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Been giving the matter some thought and the only other organisation I could think of for the letters F.A.A. is the Fuerza Aerea Argentina - the Argentine Air Force. Again, no idea if this title relates to them at all!

Pete
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  #11  
Old 28-06-17, 05:48 PM
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I have had a cloth patch as in post 1 for years & never known for sure when & where it was worn so thanks for the detailed information on it.

David.
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  #12  
Old 29-06-17, 08:32 AM
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Finally finished the decorating and started to move everything back in. I'll check through my reference material and see what else I can find re the 1948 badge changes. Sorry about the delay!

Pete
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