Div flash to whom

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by JBBOND

I have one with the flat top which is a uniform removed example

That's very useful. Thanks. Mike

[sketchley kid]

Mine was worn by QDG officer when attached to HQ 19 Mech. Bgd...(2002-2005) as Mark has posted.
.....I have it in the subdued colours also.

[Mike Jackson]

From my notes:

19 Inf Bde: "Recently raised" as at 1 Apr 51 (date of formation of 3 Inf Div, to which it belonged) From UK to Libya Oct 51 and to Egypt Nov 51. 19 Airportable Brigade left 3 Inf Div on 1 Aug 77 to become 7 Field Force on 1 Apr 78. With the exception of a gap of 18 months in 1959-1960, 19 Bde served in 3 Inf Div continuously since 1951.

The 19 Bde formation sign was designed in 1957 by Maj FWE Fursdon RE, the DAA&QMG (not Brigade Major as previously reported) “the head of a black panther, eyes glinting, set within a red triangle. The black panther represented alertness, while the red triangle represents the long association with 3 Inf Div.”

An MOD document entitled Brigade Badges and dated 4 Dec 80 does not (not) list a formation sign for 19 Bde. However, this document covers the signs allocated to Brigades when, on 1 Jan 81, Task Forces became Brigades (again). Post this change, the former Task Forces were titled 4, 6, 11, 12, 20, 22 and 33 Armd Bdes. Imagine being in a British Army with seven armoured brigades! Mike

[leigh kitchen]

Won't be too long before we can say "Imagine being in a British army with seven brigades".

[JerryBB]

Originally Posted by Mike Jackson

That's very useful. Thanks. Mike

Happy to contribute in a small way.

[leigh kitchen]

The only 19 Bde patches I have -

Top & bottom left are a matching pair - other than the fact that one has been worn & one hasn't, perhaps both were originally flat tops?
Bottom right has a merrowed edging and the change of pattern of the eye as shown earlier on an example in this thread.

When 19 Air Portable became 7th Field Force my battalion continued to wear no formation insignia.

[Mike Jackson]

On the evidence of the images posted so far, it would seem that black panthers facing right are an "endangered species". Mike

[fearnaught]

Hi, here are a couple of the right facing, and presumably a combination of 3rd Div. and 19th Brigade? could anyone say what period that one is? best wishes Mike

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by fearnaught

Hi, here are a couple of the right facing, and presumably a combination of 3rd Div. and 19th Brigade? could anyone say what period that one is? best wishes Mike

19th Mechanised Brigade circa July 1993 to circa September 1997.

Marc

[fearnaught]

Hi Marc, that was quick, thank you very much. Another for the armoured pile, best wishes Mike

[leigh kitchen]

Any significance in the flat topped insignia on the Pennant?
Is the flat top / pointed variation simply down to the whim of the person sewing the badges on garments or is it, as has been claimed, that the badges were originally flat topped, changing later to pointed?

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by 54Bty

19th Mechanised Brigade circa July 1993 to circa September 1997.

Marc

This version of the 19 Bde sign was despised, quite vehemently, by the Officers and SNCOs of 1 Green Howards. It was referred to within the Battalion as the "Jurassic Park Sticker" and they formally requested dispensation from wearing it from HQ Land Command. It was alleged that this version of the sign was the invention of a Bde Comd who wanted to make his mark upon his command. He did - but not in the manner he intended. Comment. This was not gossip - it summarises discussion that took place in 1993 as 1 Green Howards was about to assume the Spearhead role. I was the J2 briefing officer on that occasion. I requested a sample of the sign and received the items here. Mike
1 Green Howards 1993.jpg

[Mike Jackson]

I've closely examined a mint example of the original (SkE) 19 Bde sign. There are four very small dots incorporated in the design - black dots on the front and red dots on the reverse. Those along the baseline are 53.5mm apart and the pair at the apex are 53mm from those at the ends of the baseline. The pair at the apex are themselves 4mm apart. To me this indicates clearly that the edges of the flash were intended to be turned under for stitching to the uniform. This action would result in an equilateral triangle. In my opinion subsequent signs, be they EonF or Ptd, seem to have been made under the impression that the original sign was (in John Waring's words) a truncated triangle. So an error was perpetuated. It's interesting to note that a mint 7 Fd Force sign, if its yellow border is ignored, is precisely the same size and the original mint and unfolded SkE sign. So an error was perpetuated. Mike