Dragon Button - Buffs?

[4966Ian]

Hi there,

I have got this button, which I have been unable to ID. I feel I should know, it, as it just looks so familiar. In fact I am expecting a bit of a Homer Simpson moment (D'Oh) - when some kind soul puts me out of my misery and informs me what it is.

The Dragon has the look of the Buffs' winged dragon, as the tail is curved or wavy but not coiled round on itself like the Winged Dragon's tail used in the South Wales Borderers. But unlike other Buffs buttons the dragon isn't actually standing on anything (i.e. no ground or bar/torse).

There is of course the possibility that it isn't military and is something completely different.

The button is brass and is 25.5mm in diameter and has the backmark of "J.R.GAUNT & SON . BIRMINGHAM".

As you can hopefully see from the pictures there are some green marks on the back of the button and odd small green traces around the dragon, which at first glance I had assumed were verdigris - though under a glass they look more like stains. In the hard to clean areas around the dragon there seems to be the remnants of a 'black finish'. Though this could just be dirt! I did wonder if the button had originally been blackened and the last owner in attempting to clean and remove the verdigris/green stain had scrubbed the front so much that most of the black finish came off. Probably just wishful thinking on my part.


Anyway, your thoughts on what this could be, would as always be much appreciated.

Regards

Ian


N.B. Please note - I may dispose of this button a later date, if once identified, it doesn't fit in with my various areas of button collecting.

[Cribyn]

Hello Ian

I certainly see the similarity to the dragon used on The Buffs button, most notably that used on their mess waiters' buttons but, as you said, that was with a scroll 'The Buffs'.

However, I think your button is possibly for the University of Wales Officers Training Corps. In an article he wrote for the Military Historical society some years ago, Howard Ripley stated 'the original brass button depicted the Welsh dragon'. There was a black and white photo illustrating the button and as far as I can make out it is identical to yours.

Regards
Roger

[BROOKIES]

Good evening Ian.

It is an Aberystwyth UTC/OTC button, if you look under the last two Aberystwyth threads, you see an of image of mine and 41st (Kevin's).

I don't know whether Kevin would be interested in it, suppose you could send him a message.

Thanks

Jonathan

[Cribyn]

Originally Posted by BROOKIES

Good evening Ian.

It is an Aberystwyth UTC/OTC button, if you look under the last two Aberystwyth threads, you see an of image of mine and 41st (Kevin's).

I don't know whether Kevin would be interested in it, suppose you could send him a message.

Thanks

Jonathan

Hello Jonathan

That is some very interesting information you have provided.

I am not sure if that supports Howard Ripley's statement or not! To quote him in full, the University of Wales button is described thus "The original brass button depicted the Welsh dragon. This Contingent comprised Aberystwyth University College and Bangor University College and they were suspended in 1952 and 1948 respectively. Towards the end of its existence, Aberystwyth UC wore buttons of The South Wales Borderers". Howard's article was written way back in 1976 and a lot more research may have been done since then.

Does this agree with your view of the situation? If not I may have to re-describe my University of Wales button!

Regards
Roger

[41st]

Hi Roger,
I'm with Jonathan on this. Definitely UoW Aber. What I still haven't seen is a cap badge to Bangor. Both Jonathan and I have cap badges, collars and buttons to Aber.
Will be flying past your place later today on my way home from Newport.
Hwyl,
Kevin

[4966Ian]

Gentlemen,

Well I am very relieved that the button ID wasn't as obvious as I fearerd.

Thank you all so much for the positive ID of the button as belonging to the Aberystwyth UTC/OTC.

From what the article says that Roger quotes below do I take it, that this button was worn until 1952 when the button of the South Wales Borderers was subsequently worn?

For completeness here are the links to the 2 other posts mentioned by Jonathan (Brookies) above:

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ht=Aberystwyth

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ht=Aberystwyth


Many thanks again for the ID.

Ian

[Toby Purcell]

It's interesting that the Welsh Brigade and later RRW button seems to be very similar, but in anodised aluminium.

[BROOKIES]

Kevin.

Thought Bangor Uni wore RA volunteers badge as the were artillery and later would have worn RA territorial.

Haven't seen mention of seperate badge (you holding something back !!!)

Ta

[41st]

As if I would Jonathan!
I'm sure I've seen something somewhere that referred to Bangor having their own badge, I'll have to look it up.
Haven't been able to get at much of my info, or new purchases recently, due to a big home extension so everything everywhere but will get back to normal soon.
I've got a few bits for you and your Father to look at.
Hwyl,
Kevin