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#1
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KC ASC collar badges
Interestingly, there are three different 1901-1918 ASC cap badge versions and apparently also three different collar badge versions, although different in design to the cap badges.
The cap badge went from the 1901-1911 version (top left) with the free standing crown, 33 laurel leaves in threes on each side and 'thin' monogram and 'wrong' garter tongue to the 1911-1915 identical badge (top middle) but for the crown lowered onto the garter to the 1915-1918 version (top right) with 'thick' monogram, correct garter tongue and buckle and 17 leaves in each side. The 1901-1911 collar badge starts out pretty much as its victorian predecessor with 'thin' monogram, incorrect garter tongue and absent buckle, free standing crown and laurel leaves in six rows of three. Not shown here, as I still have to source one, is the 1911-1916 equivalent collar badge with raised crown, 'broad' monogram, correct garter and six rows of three leaves (Kellock & McHenry 2-26). The 1916-1918 equivalent collar badge (not shown in Kellock/McHenry), features a crown lowered onto the garter, correct garter buckle and tongue, 'broad' monogram and leaves in six rows of two. What strikes me is how small these collars actually are, the 1901-1911 version is just 28 x 25 mm, but looks much smaller due to the protruding points of the star. The 1916-1918 version is only 29 x 13 mm. Information based upon the 'The origin and variations of the R.A.S.C. badge' article in the August 1963 MHS Bulletin by Charles Thomas and Kellock & McHenry's 'Badges and insignia of the RASC, RCT & their predecessors'. Rgds, Thomas. Last edited by fougasse1940; 11-07-15 at 10:12 PM. |
#2
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Thanks,I had no such info concerning badges of that period, only later RASC (courtesy of Crown Imperial).
Only one version of WWI economy? |
#3
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Thomas,
The three cap stars you show appear to be "Officer's"/OSD badges, there was not the same subsequent designs/patterns of ORs cap stars. The collars however appear to be ORs? I beleive the OSD collar badges worn with the three cap badges you show would have been the same size and pattern but with lug fittings? Andy |
#4
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Hi
Would this be a separate collar type? (Size: 29 x 22mm) GTB |
#5
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There also seem to be OR's cap badges of all three patterns. First one is in Charles Thomas plate II No. 6, second one is in Kellock & McHenry 2-16, and third one although single piece only, is well known. Yes, the collars shown are OR's. Rgds, Thomas. |
#6
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Looks like the the 1911-1916 equivalent collar badge. The one missing from my first post. Is it OSD or patinated?
Rgds, Thomas. |
#7
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Hi Thomas,
Here is an enamelled collar badge, presumably for officer's. Cheers, Tinto |
#8
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I do not have access to either if the references you mention, however I disagree that any of the three full size badges you show have an equivalent ORs version, the closest would be the c.1916 all Gm non voided "Economy" cap star, of which there are a few variations. All ASC ORs cap stars with the exception of the above were voided. Andy |
#9
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GTB |
#10
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GTB |
#11
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Rgds, Thomas. |
#12
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Rgds, Thomas. |
#13
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What makes you doubt it is an OSD collar?
Rgds, Thomas. |
#14
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Before getting mired in any misunderstanding.
When I refer to OSD I am actually referring to OSD bz - the various shades of matt chocolate brown and which was also applied to some degree over the whole badge, including the back (although I stand corrected here if this isn't always the case). You asked whether it was OSD or patinated. Going by my explanation above, I doubt it is 'OSD bz'. And it is not patinated. I have reached these conclusions by checking the back of badge and the metal is lighter in colour. So apparently, only the face was 'bronzed'. I suppose that what I have is an officer's bronze collar badge. As bronze was only worn (to my knowledge) on Officers Service Dress, then technically speaking, it would be an OSD collar badge. It may possibly have been manufactured at one of the smaller badge makers hence differing in appearance from the normal finish of OSD bz badges. GTB |
#15
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I believe this to be an error on the part of K&K? I strongly believe there were only the two patterns of ORs "ASC" Cap Stars, KK987 which then transitioned to KK990? Although the later having a considerable amount of die and makers variations. I've yet to see an ORs badge in the style of KK988! Three if you count the EI pattern too. Andy |
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