White SAAF Mess Dress or Heimstra?

[The Good Dudes]

Hi all,

I have a couple of pairs of SAAF light blue shoulder boards with gold trim border. (See the pic labelled 4. Shoulder Boards) Upon asking around I got only one feedback, and that was that they were not in fact from the Heimstra era, but rather from when the SAAF wore white mess dress outfits. (The reference pictures that got sent to me to verify that are labelled 1. Mess Dress and 2. Old SAAF White Mess Dress)

I also got sent the pic for the Heimstra era shoulder boards (Labelled as such, or no.3) I think from the SAAF museum. I was not fully convinced that they were the White mess dress boards from the pics, because in both pics the shoulder boards appear a darker blue in colour, and the Heimstra pic looks a little closer to the shoulder boards that I do have. Plus the pics were really small in size so I could not have a closer examination of them.

Any comments, or other pics to clarify if these are from either the Heimstra era shoulder boards, or White SAAF Mess dress would be extremely helpful.

Jimmy

[2Wing]

Hello Good Dudes - been trying to contact you re: RP Whitelaw.

[Milmed]

Hi Jimmy,
The first picture you show labelled 1.Shoulder boards are for SAAF womans service. The womens service got new uniforms in 1972. A dark blue-grey tunic and skirt winter uniform. This had light blue detachable shoulder boards with a gilt gimp around the edge. They also wore a cloak with small collar gorgets with rank badges attached to (this is the lower badge you show).

The summer tunic was a light blue blouse and skirt. The detachable shoulder boards on this uniform was in dark blue-grey with gilt gimp edge (the top badge you show). Post 1975 the gilt gimp was removed. The boards with the gilt gimp can be considered from the Hiemstra period.

The same style uniform was worn by female nursing staff and female army staff but the colour was Khalahari sand (winter uniform) and oatmeal (summer uniform). The Army shoulder boards were in sealed PF colour (orange) and the nurses had ruby shoulder boards.


The next two pictures are of the SAAF white mess dress with light blue shoulder boards (and gilt gimp trim) - This is not Hiemstra period.

The final one you are asking about (pic labelled 4. Shoulder Boards) threw me when I first saw them some time earlier this year for sale at various outlets. I scratched around at the time as I also thought "Hiemstra" period, but unfortunately found out they were of more modern manufacture (post 1994) and used for SAAF ceremonial dress. The army have same ceremonial boards but in red with gilt trim. I will try and find some pictures and post them if I can, but no promises.

Steven

[The Good Dudes]

Here is another pic I was sent of Brig Jack Penn wearing the Heimstra shoulder boards. It looks quite similar to the shoulder boards that I have, other than being a different colour I guess.

[Milmed]

Hi Jimmy,
The picture you posted is a scan I did out of a Paratus Magazine and posted to the Hiemstra forum... i dont remember sending it to anyone!!

Anyway, the hiemstra boards were of a different shape to the one you are showing. The ones you have are definately the later ceremonial issue items and not from the Hiemstra period.

Steven

[The Good Dudes]

Originally Posted by Milmed

Hi Jimmy,
The picture you posted is a scan I did out of a Paratus Magazine and posted to the Hiemstra forum... i dont remember sending it to anyone!!

Anyway, the hiemstra boards were of a different shape to the one you are showing. The ones you have are definately the later ceremonial issue items and not from the Hiemstra period.

Steven

Hi Steven

My apologies about the picture, I have removed it from the thread. I think I asked around for reference material on him last year, because his medals had come up on auction, but for the life of me I can't remember who sent it to me.

As for the info, and clarification, thanks so much. Its very much appreciated. Do you know of any other reference material for the SAAF ceremonial issue? That is one area I don't see too much on. There is a website (I am not sure if I can post the link here or not), that has some brilliant pictures of a Lt Col Pope. You can see the colour change on the Mess Dress, from then till now. That is what got me thinking about the other variants of Mess Dress Uniforms.

Thanks once again.

Jimmy

[Milmed]

Hi Jimmy,
No problem dude. I dont have any info on the ceremonial dress, just remember reading/seeing something on it some time back when I thought those same boards you have were Hiemstra just to find out they were not. If I do find the info again I will add it to this post.

I have however found some usfull information. I have posted a picture of some SA Army band shoulder boards. These are currently worn as can be seen in photographs of SA Army band. Not sure though how long they have worn the red boards though, but I dont remember seeing them been worn during the SADF period, so probably post 1994 SANDF period. Note the similarity of your SAAF boards to the Army one with the bullion gimp. It is possible that the ones you have are SAAF band ceremonial boards worn c. 1995 yo c. 2002 when SAAF changed rank style.... just a thought.

As far as I am aware there is no problem with posting a link to any site within a thread, so go ahead and post the SAAF link. Did you manage to get Brig Jack Penn's medals? If I remember correctly, he was one of pioneer plastic surgeons in SA and a renowned bronze sculptor.

Steven

[The Good Dudes]

Hi Steven

Thanks again for the comments. Here is the link to the website:
http://www.rathbonemuseum.com/SAAF/S...APopeMess.html
There are some really cool pictures on it, well worth a look.

I did not get any of his medals, but I believe a friend of mine managed to get some of his lots. Its all good though.

Jimmy

[Milmed]

Hi Jimmy,
I made a great discovery today with respect to your shoulder boards.
I found three SAAF uniforms on sale in an antiques shop in Cape Town.

The first uniform was the standard service dress jacket, shirt and trousers for a SAAF sergeant with manufacturers label dated to 1986.
The second was a full black mess dress with blue trim and blue waistcoat with manufacturers label dated to 1985.

The final uniform was the standard service dress jacket badged with the same shoulder boards you have, an ornamental/ceremonial tassel worn over left shoulder and gilt on black inverted stripes(x4) worn on both lower sleeves.
The trousers have a light blue one inch stripe down both outer seams. This uniform has a munufacturers lable dated to 1991. I am still not sure what the use of this uniform is for, but looks very ceremonial. It may also be an NCO's mess dress or even for SAAF cadets.

I took some pictures with my mobile camera and if I can get them transferred to my computer, then I will post them on the forum. I think this uniform clarifies the use of your shoulder boards.

Regards
Steven

[Milmed]

Here are the pictures of the uniform.

[The Good Dudes]

Hi Stephen

Thanks so much for those pictures. It is quite strange, the whole layout of the uniform. Maybe someone can help us fill in the blanks? I will ask around as well.

Jimmy