Thoughts on this backmark design?

[Roy]

Hi Gents,

Does anyone have any thoughts on this backmark?

Cheers,

Roy

[Rob Miller]

Hi Roy

It could be another Smith & Wright, there is a similar pattern on some of their buttons.

Rob

[Cribyn]

Hello Roy

I think Rob is probably right, Smith & Wright (or Smith, Kemp & Wright if it is an early button). There is certainly a great deal of similarity between the two patterns.

What size is your button? If it is a small size it might explain why there is no maker's name, just the pattern.

Just as an aside, I don't think much research has been done on 'pattern' backmarks. Another project for you Roy!

Roger

[btns]

Birmingham was a subcontracting industry. This backmark may have been chosen by a subcontractor indicating Smith & Wright were the contractor. Another option is that S&W supplied a local agent who did not want the manufacturer's name on their buttons.

[Roy]

Hi Gents,

Thank you for this.

If it helps the button is from 1855-1881 and is Shropshire Militia (pic below) the size is 17.6mm

Cheers,

Roy

[Cribyn]

I've pulled out a button for the 4th (King's Own) Regiment of Foot, other ranks, 1855-1867, so within the same time period as Roy's button and Rob's as well, I would say. It has more or less the same pattern around the shank.

The backmark is 'P Tait & Co Limerick'. P Tait & Co were army contractors making uniforms between about 1855 and 1875 (for the British Army, the Union Army AND the Confederate Army, blockade running in the process!!).

I think btns is right in his post 4 above - Tait contracted the making of the buttons to another firm, probably Smith & Wright. In 'Shoulder Belt Plates & Buttons' Parkyn states "The 1855-71 buttons for other ranks were mostly made by Smith & Wright of Birmingham".

The same pattern around the shank was used earlier by Smith, Kemp & Wright so there does appear to be a pattern emerging (if you will forgive the pun!).

Although by no means conclusive, the above would suggest that Rob is absolutely right, Roy's button was made by Smith & Wright.

Roger

[Roy]

Thanks for the chaps,

I thing Rob and Roger are certainly on the right track with this as the design does indeed look identical.

As the date on my example is around 1855-81 (assuming these conclusions are correct), would this be Smith & Wright or Smith Kemp & Wright?

Cheerio,

Roy

[Cribyn]

Hello Roy

It could be either as I believe Kemp dropped out of the business in about 1864 leaving just Smith & Wright to carry on.

Roger

[Roy]

Thanks for that Roger.

Cheers,

Roy