King's Liverpool Officer's badge? - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Alex Rice · #1 27-01-17, 02:26 PM

Hi All
Any idea if this is an officer's badge or a sweetheart brooch? It is silver and is brooched and the pin-back is original. The scroll was obviously been gilded but that is wearing off. It is the full size of a cap badge.
Unfortunately I don't have a photo of the back.
Thanks in advance, cheers,
Alex

Alex Rice · #2 27-01-17, 02:27 PM

I suppose a picture would help....

Peter Brydon · #3 27-01-17, 02:48 PM

Alex,

I consider my example to be a sweethearts brooch.

Peter

Alex Rice · #4 27-01-17, 03:41 PM

Hi Peter
That does look like mine and it's very disappointing

, I'd rather it was an officer's badge!
Thanks for the reply. Cheers,
Alex

KLR · #5 27-01-17, 07:41 PM

It would have helped if you produced an image of the reverse ! But I am 99.9% certain that it is an Other Rank's cap badge WO Pattern 10042/1926 sealed in September of that year. It was made obsollete in March 1950 - though they were still worn up to April 1958. In fact I would suggest that it is a late (ie 2nd WW period) version rather than a 1920s or '30s one.
There are a number of indications that determine the difference between officer's and OR badges - weight, metal, construction etc etc etc etc

Alex Rice · #6 28-01-17, 05:39 AM

I have no doubt that it is silver so it's definitely not an ORs badge. It's on a board behind glass and it'll be a real mission to dismantle everything to remove it and photograph the back. Maybe I'll be able to find time to do it...

KLR · #7 28-01-17, 08:14 AM

I'm afraid I'm not convinced but I'll happily wait until your dismantling.

There are three basic variants of that 1926 Pattern (and sub divisions thereof) - see below. Yours is what I have termed as 1926 Type 1 ( 1926 type 1/C if it is an OR's).

Here also is an officer's 1926 type 1 whose quality is, I suggest, different to your example - though yours has more wear.

'Ticker' Riley · #8 28-01-17, 09:08 AM

Hello Alex

Just an observation, if you don’t mind? But where the ends of the bottom “King’s” scroll meet the front leg and tail of the horse, from your photo at least, it looks to me like these too are silver coloured. Could it be that the horse has been silvered, and that this has gone over the ends of the scroll a little, rather than it actually being made of silver? This would perhaps support Julian’s thinking that it’s an OR’s badge converted into a sweetheart broach, and that this silvering was part of that process?? Like I say, just an observation.

Best regards

Martin

KLR · #9 28-01-17, 12:49 PM

I hadn't noticed that Martin ! It's certainly possible - I have seen loads of OR badges silvered - and even gilded - converted into brooches.

Alex Rice · #10 30-01-18, 12:51 PM

Resurrecting this thread now that I have photos of the back...
It is very like Peter's badge, so it probably is a sweetheart.
In response to Martin's observation about the silvering at the ends of the scroll, I don't think you are quite correct, though close. It appears to me that the scroll, which is an overlay, was gilded after the fact because the back of the badge is gilded as well, not just the overlaid scroll. I think it is where the gilding didn't work too well at the ends.
I would obviously prefer it to be a pagri badge!

Cheers,
Alex

KLR · #11 30-01-18, 01:14 PM

It is made of two pieces, they are brazed together - you can see the braze holes. This is NOT the way officer's badges were made - as seen in Post 7.

If you look at where the hasp of the pin is attached there is a scar where the slider has been removed.

It is NOT a 'pagri badge' because they did NOT wear a metal badge (as they did in the Boer War) on the FSH or slouch hat by 1926 (at least). Instead, they wore a rectangular red patch with KINGS in white stitching.

As mentioned above, the badge is made of two pieces - the horse and torse was made in WM (white metal). The scroll was made in GM (gilding metal) !!

The conversion of the issued 1926 Pattern OR military cap badge into a 'sweetheart brooch' involved the removal of the slider and the attachment of a pin fitting. There was also some resurfacing as well.

Alex Rice · #12 30-01-18, 03:29 PM

Hi KLR
Thanks for the reply and a definitive answer. I felt after the last post there was still a question hanging but I'm sure you're right. After you mentioned it I had a closer look and also (finally) noticed the remains of the slider where it must have been removed.
I always wondered why it would have had sweat-holes!

Cheers,
Alex