25th Dragoons Arm Badge - now a suspect

[wright241]

I was under the impression that this was a good badge and seek clarification one way or the other about it. Having read some comments from Andy about the void etc, I decided to take the badge apart and have posted pics of the complete badge fronts and backs.
To me it looks like a cast badge and still has signs of the x2 east/west lugs.
Yes, it does have a fairly complete void, but then so does the collar I have.
Yes, the sword is not covered by the scabbard, but then Peter also mentions this in his book as not being an issue.
The x2 north/south lugs needed for mounting it on the oval have been added.
It looks like a bazaar made badge, and Peter refers to this aspect in his book on the 25th Dragoons arm badge in his WRU book.

So, here are the pics. It bears no resemblance at all to the one shown in an earlier thread. Have a go guys and let me know.
I will be quite happy to send this to Peter (if he wishes) for an expert opinion but to my mind it looks to be in keeping with what Peter has described - however, it will scrapped if its a fake and not sold as a 'possible'.
Enjoy. Regards, David

[Rockape]

David,

I like the crudeness that gives it that look that only a genuine Bazaar badge can and we know from research that they were popular with troops as replacements. Just because it doesn't have the aspects of an issue badge is no reason to get rid. Thumbs up here!

[wright241]

Thanks mate.
Strangely, since the comments were made about this not being genuine etc I had a really good look at both a BIM and cast bronze versions of this badge which looks exactly the same as this - with regard to the voided shape and scroll over scabbard etc - and as the bronze one came before both the cap and the arm badge - I have never treated the voided & scabbard aspect "alone" as being indicative of a fake. This view of mine was something I followed before Peters WRU book came out. His book has also highlighted to me that those badges that I used to stay away from - were probably OK. I used to wonder whether the BIM slidered version I have - it has the very small "JR GAUNT LONDON" mark was also a fake, but Peters book identifies this as OK as it also has a triangular void and the scrolls do not cover the scabbard.
Well, that's another one saved from getting crushed in the vice....
All the best, David

[Rockape]

David,

I find it amusing that Bazaar badges were often rejected out of hand by others because they were not issue badges. To me they are a part of the unit history and therefore are collectable. The irony is now that as Bazaar badges become accepted by many who earlier rejected them we might see the fakers moving in on this area to create fake Bazaar badges.

Garry

[wright241]

Originally Posted by Rockape

David,

I find it amusing that Bazaar badges were often rejected out of hand by others because they were not issue badges. To me they are a part of the unit history and therefore are collectable. The irony is now that as Bazaar badges become accepted by many who earlier rejected them we might see the fakers moving in on this area to create fake Bazaar badges.

Garry

Garry,
Too true, I also used to reject them (and others) 25 years ago - to my cost.
Definitely an eek...
David

[Old Smelly]

Originally Posted by Rockape

David,

I find it amusing that Bazaar badges were often rejected out of hand by others because they were not issue badges. To me they are a part of the unit history and therefore are collectable. The irony is now that as Bazaar badges become accepted by many who earlier rejected them we might see the fakers moving in on this area to create fake Bazaar badges.

Garry

I've collected them for some time, often very cheap because they were classed as tat. I would be happy with the badge at the start of this thread.
Lee

Hi David,

I'm not sure what Peter will say about the badge, he has a much more comprehensive 25th Dragoons collection than I do, most my UK made examples being duplicates from his collection, and my main interest in the Regiment being their involvement in the Battle of the Admin box in support of the West Yorks.

What people tend to forget about the 25th Dragoons is that they were raised in India and not the UK. Much of the issued insignia was locally produced and not shipped from the UK. Whilst this Indian made insignia was possibly not War office/ministry of supply sanctioned it was however issued as opposed to purchased by the soldiers, so in my opinion ( the purest may disagree, but each to their own) Indian made 25th Dragoons insignia is genuine and issued in the majority of cases, there are of course some atrociously made examples which may well fall into the soldier purchased bazaar copy catogary, I have Indian made examples going from almost works of art to little better than cast blobs.

Whilst your arm badge is not the best made example of Indian badges I like it, particularly so due to the cast back plate which is not often seen, so I would love to have it in my 25th Dragoons collection should you ever feel the need.

Cheers,
Marcus