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#1
02-11-12, 02:06 PM
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2 Formation Signs To ID please
Have been sorting through my modest collection of formation signs and found these two which I can't ID.
1) dark red butterfly on dark blue shield (embroidered). I know the WW1 19th Infantry Division used a butterfly as their badge so maybe a connection here? 2) yellow sword pointing upwards on red/black/red shield. Looks familiar but can't place it. Any help much appreciated. 
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#2
02-11-12, 02:12 PM
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I'm not aware of any formation other than the World War 1 19th (Western) Division that used the butterfly as its sign. So you may be very fortunate!
The second sign is that of the post World War 2 Territorial Army Troops (John Waring reference - JW 1/119b) Mike
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#3
02-11-12, 04:30 PM
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No 1
The first badge looks WWI vintage, so I think 19th Western Div.
Rob
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#4
02-11-12, 04:43 PM
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May be a variation but the description of the 19th Div sign, part of the Grace Gibson collection ( part of Lot 126 in the Bonhams catalogue of the 10/8/2004 sale was: " embd white and black butterfly on red square"
Just checked in Wheeler- Holohan where it says "The actual designs varied a lot" P.B.
__________________
Interested in all aspects of militaria/military history but especially insignia and history of non regular units with a Liverpool connection Members welcome in my private Facebook group “The Kings Liverpool Regiment ( 1685-1958 )” Last edited by Peter Brydon; 02-11-12 at 05:02 PM.
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#5
02-11-12, 05:11 PM
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19 (Western) Division
The version illustrated on the Player's cigarette card 58/150 is as per a stencilled design on white ground. No colours are mentioned in the 19 Div entry in Divisional and Other Signs by Capt V Wheeler-Holohan, 12th London Regt, published 1920.
19 Western Div.jpg
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#6
02-11-12, 06:09 PM
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Hi Chaps
Many thanks for the responses. It does look like WW1 manufacture and I'm inclined to think it is 19th Div. I don't know how regulated these early patches were as regards colour and shape. To complicate things further I've found an illustration of a 19th Div patch in "British Battle Insignia 1914-18" (Chappell). This one shows a red butterfly (identical to mine) but on a khaki square. It's described as "19th Div battle badge worn on right forearm"
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