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  #1  
Old 18-05-12, 03:53 PM
badgeman badgeman is offline
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Default Ebay again

Hi all,
Have a look at what this person is selling, Ebay number 261023136174 this is not the first time I have mentioned to this seller what he is selling IS NOT SAAF but RAF with SAAF badges on! I would suggest someone/he has either sewn the wings, and medal ribbons on to a RAF BD in an attempt to make it something its not?, or the whole thing is a fake and has been made recently, as the label does not look 70 years old to me!?
This sort of thing makes me really mad, AND he now has bids on it so someone who thinks they are buying a original SAAF BD, will in fact get a RAF one/modern repro.
I have tried reporting him to ebay, but it does not fit into any of the categories, so can go no further!
your thoughts please ladies and gentleman
BM
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  #2  
Old 18-05-12, 04:10 PM
Nozzer Nozzer is offline
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Here is a direct link

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2610231361...#ht_2366wt_698
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  #3  
Old 18-05-12, 04:48 PM
badgeman badgeman is offline
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Thanks Andy, .......not very good with these things, and didn't know how to do that!
BM
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  #4  
Old 19-05-12, 01:43 PM
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Pylon1357 Pylon1357 is offline
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Andy, The label looks fine to me. I have some BD in collection, where the labels appear stone mint... reason, not because they are fake but because the BD was never issued and therefore there is no wear to the label. As for the remainder of the items, I must say I do not care for the crispness of the ribbon bar. The rest of the insignia, I would need a hands on inspection as I am not too familiar with SAAF items.

I am not certain of your meaning this is RAF made to appear SAAF? Are you refereing to the fact it was produced in England as opposed to South Africa? To me that fact means nothing as it was common place for all commonwealth countries to have British produced BD.
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  #5  
Old 19-05-12, 02:09 PM
Nozzer Nozzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pylon1357 View Post
Andy, The label looks fine to me. I have some BD in collection, where the labels appear stone mint... reason, not because they are fake but because the BD was never issued and therefore there is no wear to the label. As for the remainder of the items, I must say I do not care for the crispness of the ribbon bar. The rest of the insignia, I would need a hands on inspection as I am not too familiar with SAAF items.

I am not certain of your meaning this is RAF made to appear SAAF? Are you refereing to the fact it was produced in England as opposed to South Africa? To me that fact means nothing as it was common place for all commonwealth countries to have British produced BD.
Hi Pylon1357,

I merely added the link to help others find this item. I have no experience with this sort of thing, although I agree about the medal ribbon

Andy
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  #6  
Old 19-05-12, 03:44 PM
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dragon166 dragon166 is offline
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The other oddball thing with this tunic is the arm eagles. Firstly they are mounted on the wrong sleeves (should be facing backward) and they appear to be the "fat budgie" type on a dark blue background. This type did not appear until 1972.
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  #7  
Old 19-05-12, 09:06 PM
badgeman badgeman is offline
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Hi Mate
What I mean about RAF made to look SAAF is, in WW2 the SAAF were still part of the army so they wore green BD and mostly army rank, as opossed to the blue RAF, and as you have already noticed the arm eagles are 1970's versions, and on the wrong arms!, SAAF did not wear such things during WW2, although if you were an air sergent (Flight SGT) you wore a metal eagle above the stripes. To me this has been made to deliberately dupe someone. It does not matter where it was made, as lots came from England, SA, Canada, in fact all over the Commonwealth, here is a original WW2 SAAF BD from my own collection given to me by a Colonel, so you can see what I mean!
Also with ALL WW2 RAF cloth Badges the backing material was black.
Keep well
BM
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Last edited by badgeman; 19-05-12 at 09:12 PM.
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  #8  
Old 20-05-12, 01:56 PM
SAS1 SAS1 is offline
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Dave has it spot on, the arm eagles are on the wrong sleeves and are the post 1972 pattern. Also, unless he qualified for his wings with the SAAF and then transferred to the RAF, the wings should either be RAF on blue, or SAAF on khaki. If the former i'd expect to see 'South Africa' titles as well. As for the ribbons, as far as I am aware the rosette on the Africa star indicates service with the 1st or 8th army, and not Air Force service in Africa.

Its good for the BD and wings as seperate components, but nothing else.

Last edited by SAS1; 20-05-12 at 02:03 PM.
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  #9  
Old 20-05-12, 02:04 PM
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Pylon1357 Pylon1357 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badgeman View Post
Hi Mate
What I mean about RAF made to look SAAF is, in WW2 the SAAF were still part of the army so they wore green BD and mostly army rank, as opossed to the blue RAF, and as you have already noticed the arm eagles are 1970's versions, and on the wrong arms!, SAAF did not wear such things during WW2, although if you were an air sergent (Flight SGT) you wore a metal eagle above the stripes. To me this has been made to deliberately dupe someone. It does not matter where it was made, as lots came from England, SA, Canada, in fact all over the Commonwealth, here is a original WW2 SAAF BD from my own collection given to me by a Colonel, so you can see what I mean!
Also with ALL WW2 RAF cloth Badges the backing material was black.
Keep well
BM
Ah Ha, I see now. I was not aware that the SAAF was still part of the regular army, and therefore wore the Khaki coloured BD. This fact certainly sticks out like the proverbial sore thumb. Along with the previously noted 'wrong era' badges.

Depending on price though, it would make a nice original Air Force BD, minus the crap added to it.

Thanks for taking the time to explain to me the, now obvious, issue in regards to the incorrect BD. I have learned something today, and not even finished my first cup of coffee.
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  #10  
Old 20-05-12, 09:47 PM
badgeman badgeman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pylon1357 View Post
Ah Ha, I see now. I was not aware that the SAAF was still part of the regular army, and therefore wore the Khaki coloured BD. This fact certainly sticks out like the proverbial sore thumb. Along with the previously noted 'wrong era' badges.

Depending on price though, it would make a nice original Air Force BD, minus the crap added to it.

Thanks for taking the time to explain to me the, now obvious, issue in regards to the incorrect BD. I have learned something today, and not even finished my first cup of coffee.
HA HA , well mate only to pleased to help!, as long as someone who does not know reads this and will now not be conned, my work here is done!
My dear old granddad used to say "if we can all learn something new everyday, then the day has not been wasted!"
BM
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  #11  
Old 21-05-12, 02:19 AM
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dragon166 dragon166 is offline
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The only good part is re the ribbons. The 1st Army would wear a 1 on the Africa Star ribbon and the 8TH Army would wear an 8 on the ribbon. The rosette would indicate Air Force Service. As the tunic is "Aircrew" they would normally only wear the rank badge on the right arm.

Last edited by dragon166; 21-05-12 at 02:26 AM.
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  #12  
Old 21-05-12, 08:38 AM
SAS1 SAS1 is offline
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Although the order wad for stripes on the right sleeve only, there are plenty of examples of them on both, although there is no doubt its a made up item. I have an RAF officers tunic from the owner with an '8' on the AS ribbon.
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  #13  
Old 21-05-12, 09:40 AM
badgeman badgeman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAS1 View Post
Although the order wad for stripes on the right sleeve only, there are plenty of examples of them on both, although there is no doubt its a made up item. I have an RAF officers tunic from the owner with an '8' on the AS ribbon.
l too have good original examples of not only RAF BD's but also Army with Stipes on both arms, and only on the Right, it depends on how far into the war it was, as they couldn't spare the material back then!.
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  #14  
Old 24-04-13, 04:37 PM
Foxtrot30 Foxtrot30 is offline
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All SAAF pilots were officers, their are very few exceptions to this.
The SAAF was its own service, however they wore the Army uniform and used Army ranks.
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