Interesting RN PO2 Photo

[RCN]

I noted this photo in a booklet I was reading not too long ago, its kind of a mystery as the sailor is definitely wearing a CPO (Chief Petty Officer) uniform & gold Victorian CPO cap badge, but with the insignia of a PO2 (Petty Officer 2nd class) on his left sleeve.

Now a PO2 is not a CPO - so my question is: why is this rating dressed as a CPO?

RCN Bryan

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by RCN

I noted this photo in a booklet I was reading not too long ago, its kind of a mystery as the sailor is definitely wearing a CPO (Chief Petty Officer) uniform & gold Victorian CPO cap badge, but with the insignia of a PO2 (Petty Officer 2nd class) on his left sleeve.

Now a PO2 is not a CPO - so my question is: why is this rating dressed as a CPO?

RCN Bryan

There is a website made up by a RN enthusiast where all the changes to rank and rate are explained. I found it under a search for 'RN Warrant Officers'. It is still running but the last time I contacted the webmaster he was very unwell. If you can't find it I will post a link in a couple of days time.

[elgee45]

Just a thought, Bryan. The seamen category wore square rig. The person in the photo may have belonged to a non seaman category, clerical, engineering etc. and therefore wore the fore-and-aft rig.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by elgee45

Just a thought, Bryan. The seamen category wore square rig. The person in the photo may have belonged to a non seaman category, clerical, engineering etc. and therefore wore the fore-and-aft rig.

Yes, I believe that is what it said on the website to which I referred, only it goes into a lot more detail there. It's well worth a read and full of really interesting information.

[RCN]

Thanks mates,

I think this is the site you are referring to Toby?

http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

I am aware of the Class I & Class III uniforms worn during the pre 1WW period (& afterwards also).

A PO2 could have been dressed in Class III uniform by all means, that would depend upon his rate (ie: trade), but he would have worn black buttons & a red embroidered cap badge.
Depending upon the order of dress he could have worn either gold or red rank/rate/GC badges in addition.

In that prewar Victorian timeframe only the CPO's wore the gold cap badge & gold(gilt) buttons.

Bryan

[Jim Maclean]

I think the guy you are looking for is Godfrey Dykes. His research into the Royal Navy's Warrant Officer rank which was absolutely nothing to do with the army's WO is the best explanation I have found.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Jim Maclean

I think the guy you are looking for is Godfrey Dykes. His research into the Royal Navy's Warrant Officer rank which was absolutely nothing to do with the army's WO is the best explanation I have found.

That's the one Jim.

Here is the website. It runs to two parts and has many links inserted that are well worth enlarging and reading: http://www.godfreydykes.info/THE%20R...PART%20ONE.htm

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by RCN

Thanks mates,

I think this is the site you are referring to Toby?

http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

I am aware of the Class I & Class III uniforms worn during the pre 1WW period (& afterwards also).

A PO2 could have been dressed in Class III uniform by all means, that would depend upon his rate (ie: trade), but he would have worn black buttons & a red embroidered cap badge.
Depending upon the order of dress he could have worn either gold or red rank/rate/GC badges in addition.

In that prewar Victorian timeframe only the CPO's wore the gold cap badge & gold(gilt) buttons.

Bryan

This is the one Bryan: http://www.godfreydykes.info/THE%20R...PART%20ONE.htm

It is full of fascinating stuff for anyone interested in the history of the RN from Victorian times until the end of the Cold War (approx).

[elgee45]

Could also be that the dude in the picture borrowed a chief's hat to look smarter in the photograph. Wouldn't be the first instance of a serviceman dolling himself up with nicer, but unauthorised bits and pieces of uniform to have his picture taken . . .

Lawrence

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by elgee45

Could also be that the dude in the picture borrowed a chief's hat to look smarter in the photograph. Wouldn't be the first instance of a serviceman dolling himself up with nicer, but unauthorised bits and pieces of uniform to have his picture taken . . .

Lawrence

Not in the RN of that time I don't think. The discipline was absolutely rigid and the differences between rank and rate (often each with their own separate mess at that time) taken very seriously, as you will see if you take the trouble to peruse Godfrey Dykes website.