FAKE ANODISED (NOT THE SCOTTISH ONES!)

[Alan O]

1. Following on from Chris' thread about restrike a/a badges I have the following list of anodised badges in existance which I believe were never issued to the regt (or their TA or Cadet bns) before they disbanded. These badges are die struck (mirror imaged in Chris' parlace) and the sliders are unmarked. All I believe to have been made to order by an unknown badge making company for the collectors market:

Royal Warwickshire Regt
Fife and Forfar Yeomanry
3rd Kings Own Hussars
South Staffordshire Regt
Northumberland Fusiliers
Royal Ulster Rifles (Kings Crown)

2. In addition I do not own but have seen the following:

East Surrey Regt
Suffolk Regt
4th Hussars
Rifle Brigade k/c pattern
Hampshire Carbineers
9th Lancers

3. There remain a third list of badges that have been reproduced by this company with the 'wrong' construction but the design was worn by the units. Examples would include the Essex Regt and possibly the Glosters/Hants 1969 badge.

4. In addition due to the quantity on the market, I am pretty sure that the following badges were heavily reproduced by JR Gaunt Bham in the 1970s-80s. They are die cast and indistinguishable from a contempory badge except for the Gaunt Bham mark. I believe that a true Gaunt's 1950s badge should be JR Gaunt London marked:

City of London yeomanry q/c (never worn by the regt)
23rd London Regt (1958-60)
East Midlands Brigade
Not forgetting the ever so easily obtained SAS

5. There were lots more designs that were made for the collectors market but it is impossible to set them apart from the genuine article.

Thoughts?

Alan

[bess55]

Hi Alan,
The nitty gritty of anodised collecting!

Ok my experience of your sections are as follows:-

1. I have with blank sliders and do not consider original:-

Royal Warwickshire Regt
Fife and Forfar Yeomanry
Royal Ulster Rifles (Kings Crown)

However i have 3rd Kings own Hussars stamped Firmin London, although this I doubt to be original. The origins of this badge (i.e the reunion etc) have been explored at length here.

My South Staffordshire Regt is stamped Firmin London (nice clear stamping), die cast badge, flat blank rear,appears to have been worn with typical wear at the top of the slider and generally presents as any good 'real' anodised cap badge.

Northumberland Fusiliers. I have several of these, many have clearly been worn with wear on the slider and the face of the badge, maker marked Firmin London and J R Gaunt London. The Firmin and Gaunt badges are clearly from differant dies as they have slight differances.

2. I have with a blank slider the obligatory Hampshire Carabiniers Yeomanry, which is clearly not real and I dont think is even made of alluminium, perhaps tin or some other alloy.

However my Suffolk Regt appears cast and has a slider marked H.W Timmings. This particular anodised badge has been mentioned on another thread as there is an example for sale on Ebay. My example appears cast and is not 'mirrored' fully on the rear and looks much like many good badges. However on closer inspection the stamp it appears suspect.

My East Surrey Regt presents as a well made, nicely cast badge, J R Gaunt London marked slider.

KC Rifle Brigade. Well, I have two of these one blank slider and one marked H W Timmings Ltd B.Ham. They are differing dies. Whilst I am aware of the dubious reality of this badge being made let alone worn in anodised alluminium, I have to say the marked slider example appears fine, slider correctly adhered with a nice clear stamp. Both examples do have some 'mirroring' on the rear.


3.
My Essex Regts are cast with sliders marked Dowler Birmingham and Firmin London, both differing dies, plus an example with a blank slider which appears from the same die as the Dowler example.

Gloucestershgire & Hampshire Regt, I have examples marked J R Gaunt London Ltd and Dowler Birmingham. (incidentally should this have badge come with a gilt back back ?)

4.
City of London yeomanry q/c and 23rd London Regt I have both marked J R Gaunt B.Ham as you state.

SAS, well I have examples marked J R Gaunt B.Ham, London Badge & Button Company (also all gold by this maker), Firmin London manufactured black (yeah, right) and an example with lugs (and no not the very distinctive Rhodesian Reutler type).

5.
Well I would add to the above South Wales Borderers as a well faked badge and clearly comes from the same school as the KC Royal Ulster Rifles and the Fife and Forfar Yeomanry, we all know the type . . . very thick alloy , mirrored back and un marked slider, the badge being in pristine condition and never been worn. I also have a Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regt which I dont like. Thick, odd finish and a very poor Firmin London 'offset' stamp on the slider . . . hmmm.

I would add 5th Bn Seaforth Highlanders which is of the same construction as the Hampshire Caribiniers . . . . a bit 'tinny' in construction but presents like anodised alluminium. Also I have an example of The Welch Regt with a blank slider, thick guage alloy and unworn.

Berkshire Yeomanry (silver) with slider marked Firmin London. Not convinced about this one either as I have some nice cast examples with lugs.

Clearly there are more but these are all I can recall at present. Obviously some of the rarer or indeed never produced anodised badges were in fact made by someone, I would guess mid 70's for the collector, either directly to decieve or just to be purchased by collectors. This subject has and hopefully will be discussed at length. To commission an out and out fake/reproduction anodised alluminium badge surely cannot come cheap, so once again it must beg the question why do it, although clearly it would appear to have been done. Would a manufacturer commission a run of under 100 hundred units? Any more and the potential deciever would flood the market. If made by an established anodised badge manufacturer, why are they of a clearly differant quality to a regular badge and of a differant process?

Another oddity is when we see clearly original badges with unmarked sliders. Anbody know why?

As ever, my commentry alone and am happy to be corrected at any turn.

Regards all

Bess

[Alan O]

Thanks I suspect that I need to move the SStaffs, East Surreys and the NF to the catagorey of 'made but also faked'.

I have a few blank slidered badges that are not die struck and are flat backed. I presume that these are just ones that have slipped throught he stamping process as they are to such modern and mundane units that i doubt that they are faked.

Your point about flooding the market is a good one but that has happened with the SAS, 23 Londons, 5th bedfordshires TA and even the CofL Yeo RRs are relatively common.

Alan

[NorthStafford]

In 1958, prior to the amalgamation, I trained in the North Staffords. We were in a mixed squad of North and South and all wore metal badges non a/a. On amalgamation the regiment became part of the Mercian Brigade and wore the Mercian (Eagle) cap badge. On the demise of the brigade badges the Staffords wore the Staffordshire Regt badge and the TA battalions became the Mercian Volunteers and continued to wear the Eagle.I can think of no time when the South Staffs (or North) wore a a/a badge.

[Alan O]

The SStafs stays where it is then! North Staffs are so common I don't think that there is any doubt that these have been restruck.

While we are on the subject about Staffs, K&K show an anodised (probably not a/a) Staffordshire Knot as the 5/6th Bn badge in 1968. Gaylor repeats this but I have never seen another example. I can find no record of this badge being worn and I suspect that it was some sort of collar. Hugh King's badge that was shown in the book was sold at Bosleys last year and was not a/a at all. I suspect this was one of Hugh King's rare mistakes. Any thoughts?

Alan

[ukbrits]

Hi Alan,
There is a post by Forum member Mark Blackburn with a quote about the South Staffs a/a badge being issued to The Regiment in a book by Guido Rosignoli.
search for "South Staffs badges" posted on the 22.07.08 by Mark Blackburn.
Hope this helps.
ukbrits

[L1A1]

North Stafford

If the TAVR II Battalions of the Staffordshire Regiment wore the Mercian Brigade badge, did the 5th/6th Battalion (TAVR III) also wear this badge? The time period I am particularly interested in finding out about is the late 60's

Many thanks

[engr9266]

I am glad that this is all about Infantry etc badges. What about the Arms & Services badge's? Do I need to go and check ALL my A/A badges or what?? I have around 650 (give or take) anodised badges of units, maker marks & variations of said badges.
Jerry

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Alan O

1. Following on from Chris' thread about restrike a/a badges I have the following list of anodised badges in existance which I believe were never issued to the regt (or their TA or Cadet bns) before they disbanded. These badges are die struck (mirror imaged in Chris' parlace) and the sliders are unmarked. All I believe to have been made to order by an unknown badge making company for the collectors market:

Royal Warwickshire Regt
Fife and Forfar Yeomanry
3rd Kings Own Hussars
South Staffordshire Regt
Northumberland Fusiliers
Royal Ulster Rifles (Kings Crown)

2. In addition I do not own but have seen the following:

East Surrey Regt
Suffolk Regt
4th Hussars
Rifle Brigade k/c pattern
Hampshire Carbineers
9th Lancers

3. There remain a third list of badges that have been reproduced by this company with the 'wrong' construction but the design was worn by the units. Examples would include the Essex Regt and possibly the Glosters/Hants 1969 badge.

4. In addition due to the quantity on the market, I am pretty sure that the following badges were heavily reproduced by JR Gaunt Bham in the 1970s-80s. They are die cast and indistinguishable from a contempory badge except for the Gaunt Bham mark. I believe that a true Gaunt's 1950s badge should be JR Gaunt London marked:

City of London yeomanry q/c (never worn by the regt)
23rd London Regt (1958-60)
East Midlands Brigade
Not forgetting the ever so easily obtained SAS

5. There were lots more designs that were made for the collectors market but it is impossible to set them apart from the genuine article.

Thoughts?

Alan

Hi Alan,

This is what I have - the numbers are the designation I use to ID the slider:

Royal Warwickshire Regt - No mark but a Gaunt (7.8)
Fife and Forfar Yeomanry - No mark but possibly a Gaunt 7.4
3rd Kings Own Hussars - No mark but a Gaunt (7.8)
South Staffordshire Regt - Marked FIRMIN LONDON (3.1)
Northumberland Fusiliers - Marked J.R.GAUNT LONDON (7.3)
Royal Ulster Rifles (Kings Crown) - No mark but a Gaunt (7.8)

East Surrey Regt - Not owned
Suffolk Regt - Not Owned
4th Hussars - Not Owned
Rifle Brigade k/c pattern - Not marked but possibly a Gaunt 7.4
Hampshire Carbineers - Not owned but usually tin fakes - one sold this week for 28 quid on eBay - scary...
9th Lancers - Not owned

Essex Regt - Marked DOWLER.BIRMINGHAM (2.4)
Glous/Hants - Marked DOWLER.BIRMINGHAM (2.4)

City of London yeomanry q/c - Marked J.R.GAUNT B'HAM (7.6)
23rd London Regt (1958-60) - Marked J.R.GAUNT B'HAM (7.6)
East Midlands Brigade - Never heard of this...
SAS - Marked LONDON BADGE & BUTTON CO LTD (8.2)

From MY badges ONLY I would say with what I currently know AT THIS POINT IN TIME that the following are good:

South Staffordshire Regt - Marked FIRMIN LONDON (3.1)
Northumberland Fusiliers - Marked J.R.GAUNT LONDON (7.3)

The following are probably good:

Essex Regt - Marked DOWLER.BIRMINGHAM (2.4)
Glous/Hants - Marked DOWLER.BIRMINGHAM (2.4)

The rest of the badges I OWN are unofficial commissions which is a better term than 'restrike' as if they were never made in the first place they could never have been re-struck.

I have been through some CCN's this week and some of the above badges were in these publications with instructions on how to order and obtain the badges.

e.g. SAS and 23rd London Regt (1958-60). However, MY badges were made past the active service date of these units. Note SAS was for 21st Artists Forge cap ONLY and not any other piece of head gear.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Chris

[hagwalther]

I forgot to say - ALL the badges I have noted in the previous post were made via the correct impression die forging (cold) manufacturing process.

Regards

Chris

[MinM762]

I believe the new batch of Royal Regiment Gloucestershire & Hampshire AA are modern fakes too. Suddenly lots on the open market, Fairs and eBay is a wash with them. No makers name in slider and gold colour is very bright. Royal Ha,pshire Regiment Museum is selling them and when questioned said a man sold them a box of 50. Worth thinking about? What next! 🤔

Alan,
The AA Royal Regiment of Gloucestershire & Hampshire with blank sliders are modern (fake) striking. We've compared them and the colours are different. The Royal Hampshire Museum is selling them. I asked where they got them and the curator told me they recently bought 50 from a chap. I asked who and he evaded the question.
Only two makers produced the original strikings and they are named on the slider.
Who would ever have thought years ago that anyone would ever end up faking AA badges???
Best wishes,
Ken
(Ex 1 Glosters)