'Royal Navy' Titles

[HMS-Troutbridge]

Hello chaps,

I know this has been a topic of discussion for some time and I have had a good browse of the old topics on this subject and foung a wealth of info but I was wondering if people might be able to help me with specific dates, was hoping someone might be able to give me introduction/withdrawal dates for these patterns;

- Royal Navy curved white on blue, embroidered, printed etc. shoulder title.
- Royal Navy straight white on blue chest title worn on foul weather gear.
- Royal Navy straight black on green/desert chest title, worn on CS95s.
- Royal navy curved black on green/desert/MTP shoulder title. Introduced 2010?

Cheers!

[HMS-Troutbridge]

Also a possibility on a variant of the foul weather/goretex jacker title incorporating a white ensign 'corporate' logo... Not sure if that's official or not.

[Guzzman]

Hi Simon

A bit of a lengthy one this but I will try to answer your questions!

Royal Navy curved white on blue, embroidered, printed etc. shoulder title

In 1941 a Royal Navy Commando was formed, initially for beach parties. The first shoulder title was 'ROYAL NAVY' embroidered in white on dark blue. In the Spring of 1942 this title was replaced by one which read 'R.N. COMMANDO' in white on dark blue (both printed and embroidered).

An exception to the above were the RN personnel who were part of the Combined Operations Pilotage Parties (COPPS) who wore a khaki or camouflage smock with a printed white on dark blue 'ROYAL NAVY' title above a combined operations red-on-blue 'tombstone' badge. All RN Commando units were disbanded at the end of the Second World War.

I have heard that some RN Minewarfare personnel wore white on dark-blue 'ROYAL NAVY' shoulder titles on their working rig during the late-1960s/early-1970s but I have not been able to confirm this.

The only post-war 'Royal Navy' shoulder titles whose use I can confirm were the printed white on dark blue 'ROYAL NAVY' titles worn on the DPM combat jacket by RN personnel. This shoulder title was phased out in the mid-1990s.

Royal Navy straight white on blue chest title worn on foul weather gear

The Gortex foul-weather jacket (with 'ROYAL NAVY' breast badge and reflective patches) replaced the old-style jackets which were not particularly waterproof and had the pointless foam hood insert and rubber "fruit pastille" cord stops. I can't remember the exact date of introduction but I think it was somewhere around 2000 (but don't quote me on that!).

Royal Navy straight black on green/desert chest title, worn on CS95s

CS95 (Combat Soldier 1995) is Dress No. 8 or combats. Worn with a 'ROYAL NAVY' badge over the right breast pocket. Worn in conjunction with a coloured (NOT green and black or sandy light brown ) White Ensign and Royal Navy Tactical Recognition Flash (TRF) on the right arm and a ROYAL NAVY/rating/rank slide on the epaulette on the centre of the chest.

The 'ROYAL NAVY' badge was worn over the right pocket as this allowed a name badge to be worn over the left pocket in a similar fashion to No.4s. This was PJHQ policy. Depending upon the Theatre in which personnel operated a name badge might or might not be worn.

Royal Navy curved black on green/desert/MTP shoulder title

As of 1st January 2009 combat fatigues were only to be worn by RN personnel who could demonstrate "clear, practical and environmental reasons" for doing so. At the same time the decision was made by clothing committee that the Tactical Recognition Flash (TRF) and the 'ROYAL NAVY' badge worn over the right pocket should be abolished. They were to be replaced by shoulder flashes for both the left and right shoulders with 'ROYAL NAVY' on them.

By May 2010 the 'ROYAL NAVY' badge worn over the right pocket had ceased to be issued pending replacement by the new shoulder title. These should have been issued from early-2010 but they were delayed and not issued until the end of the year.

Variant of the foul weather/gortex jacket incorporating a white ensign corporate logo

As of September 2010 a new Royal Navy chest flash was introduced for the Mk. IV Foul Weather Jacket. The new flash (NSN 8455-99-598-6703) includes the Royal Navy logo as well as 'ROYAL NAVY'. New flashes were issued in exchange for old flashes.

I hope the above makes sense and is of some use! I am e-mailing some documents to you today.

Pete

[Jim Maclean]

Then there's always the FOST worn by Seariders in place of the pretty Royal Navy badge.

[Guzzman]

And don't forget the chest flash for Naval Police - this has the RN logo and 'POLICE' instead of 'ROYAL NAVY'. I have heard a rumour that RN Police are to drop their 'Police' badges and go back to the old system of badges - don't know how true this is.

Pete

[sailorbear]

Hi, Happy New year! Just to add to the mix, there is this title, which I own but which no one has yet definitively identified?

Tony.

[Guzzman]

Happy New Year to everyone!

Hi Tony

I've got a pair of these red-on-blue 'Royal Navy' titles as well. Like you, I haven't got a clue as to when/why/and to whom they were issued.

I mentioned in my earlier comments that I had heard that Royal Navy shoulder titles had been issued to some minewarfare personnel in the 1960s and it has been suggested that these may have been the red-on-blue titles. However, I have no evidence of this.

Re-reading my earlier entry (I should really learn to do that before I post things!) I have realised that I didn't provide a date for the introduction of the RN TRF/'ROYAL NAVY' breast flash/rank or rating chest slide combo worn on CS95. It was introduced in 2007.

Pete

[HMS-Troutbridge]

Thanks very much for all the assistance on this! Very helpful indeed

[HMS-Troutbridge]

Only slight thing I'm confused on and I had to go back and double check but the black on green slides are mentioned as being introduced in the 1996 RN badge inventory. So you mean the TRF and chest flash were introduced in 2007 for use with these shoulder badges?

[Guzzman]

Hi

Sorry - should have made my self clear. CS95 was designed with the intention of the rate/rank slide being worn on the chest as opposed to the shoulders. In 2007 it was felt that naval personnel serving in Iraq and Afghanistan were too frequently being described as 'soldiers' by the media - simply because they wore combats. So the decision was taken that RN personnel should also adopt the RN TRF and the 'ROYAL NAVY' chest flash in addition to the rate/rank slide. These had to be worn together. A blue Royal Navy stable belt was also worn with CS95. None of this made any difference as naval personnel still continued to be referred to as soldiers! By 2009 it was felt that far too many personnel were wearing combats as opposed to normal naval rig - even when alongside in the home dockyards. So the decision was taken to restrict the use of CS95 and to replace the existing insignia (which some felt made personnel look like boy scouts) with the smaller shoulder titles and the badge of rank on the chest slide.

Pete

[HMS-Troutbridge]

Thanks Pete! Always fascinating to hear the history and reasoning behind such things too, I certainly remember the proliferation of combat uniform as I was following the doings of the RN even then, makes a lot of sense.

[Jim Maclean]

MCTA on the FW jacket. A mix of Jack and civvies, they do the acceptance on vessels completing refit I think. I'll find out what it stands for.

The civvies wear MCTA shoulder slides, Jack wears rank -mostly CPO/ WO2, so probably Tiffs or what passes for a tradesman in the RN now.

[Snowdrop 68]

Just asked one of the matelots in my office, MCTA stands for Maritime Commissioning Tials and Assesment. They trial anything procured by the Navy pre to commissioning, mostly engineers.

Hope this helps.

regards, Bill

[Paddy]

Bill

You need to tell him to check the intranet then. MCTA stands for Maritime Capability, Trials & Assessment.

From this matelot (engineer) sitting in his own office.

Paddy

[Snowdrop 68]

Paddy,

He's adamant lol. Saw it on a website to do with a bike ride they did. Being RAF, I bowed to his senior service knowledge

Bill