Badges, Forage Cap (1926)

[54Bty]

Priced Vocabulary of Clothing & Necessaries 1926 Pimlico section 7.

Pages 49-51

BADGES, FORAGE CAP (with vertical shank; also for F.P. helmets: all ranks)

Cat No. Designation Rate [Price, all listed at 2d each ]
1526 K.D.G.
1527 The Bays
1528 3rd D.G.
1529 4th D.G.
1530 5th D.G.
1531 The Carabiniers
1532 7th D.G., also arm badge
1533 The Royals
1534 The Greys
1535 The Inniskillings
1536 3rd H.
1537 4th H.
1538 7th H.
1539 8th H.
1540 10th H.
1541 11th H.
1542 13th H.
1543 14th H.
1544 15th H.
1545 18th H.
1546 19th H.
1547 20th H.
1548 5th L.
1549 9th L.
1550 12th L.
1551 16th L.
1552 17th L.
1553 21st L.
1554 R.A.
1555 R.A. Militia. Channel Islands
1556 R. Malta Artillery
1557 R.E.
1558 R.E. Militia. Channel Islands and Malta Division
1559 Bedfs. And Herts. R.
1560 Border R.
1561 Buffs, The
1562 Cheshire, R.
1563 D.C.L.I.
1564 Devon R.
1565 Dorset R.
1566 Durham L.I.
1567 D.W.R.
1568 E. Lanc. R.
1569 E. Surrey R.
1570 E. York. R.
1571 Essex R.
1572 Foresters.
1573 Gloster R., back
1574 Gloster R., front
1575 Green Howards
1576 Guernsey L.I.
1577 Hampshire R.
1578 Inniskilling Fus.
1579 Jersey L.I.
1580 King’s R., The
1581 King’s Own R.
1582 K.O.M.R.
1583 K.O.Y.L.I.
1584 K.R.R.C.
1585 K.S.L.I.
1586 Lan. Fus.
1587 Leicester R.
1588 Lincoln R.
1589 Loyal R.
1590 Manch. R.
1591 Midd’x. R.
1592 Norfolk R.
1593 North’d Fus.
1594 North’n. R.
1595 N. Stafford R.
1596 Oxf & Bucks L.I.
1597 P.W. Vols.
1598 Queen’s R. The
1599 R. Berks R.
1600 R. Fus.
1601 Rifle Bde.
1602 R. Ir. Fus. with coronet
1603 R. Sussex R.
1604 R. U. Rif.
1605 R. Warwick R.
1606 R. W. Fus.
1607 R. W. K.
1608 Somerset L.I.
1610 S. Stafford R.
1611 Suffolk R.
1612 S. Wales Bord.
1613 W. Afr. R.
1614 Welch R.
1615 W.I.R.
1616 Wilts R.
1617 Worc. R.
1618 W. York. R.
1619 Y. &. L. R.
1620 A.D. Corps
1621 A.E.C.
1623 Corps S.A. and M.G. Schools
1624 Messengers, Crown, with pin
1625 M.P.
1626 M.P.S.C., also for Barrack Wardens
1627 Paid Pensioner Recruiters, also for Garrison Staff and Gymnastic Staff
1628 R.A.M.C.
1629 R.A.O.C.
1630 R.A.P.C.
1631 R.A.S.C.
1632 R.A.V.C.
1633 R. Military College, Staff and Band
1634 R. Military Schools, Students
1635 R. Military School of Music
1636 Royal Arms
1637 R. Signals

[Keith Blakeman]

What would be the point of stating the 2d price, is that what they cost to manufacture or the cost to service personnel for replacements?

Officers had to buy their insignia, I'm not aware other ranks did?

[Sonofacqms]

By 1926 many of these Cavalry badges would have been obsolete due to the 1922 amalgamations, so surplus to requirements I suppose.

Rob

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman

What would be the point of stating the 2d price, is that what they cost to manufacture or the cost to service personnel for replacements?

Officers had to buy their insignia, I'm not aware other ranks did?

Keith,
issued items were/are supplied and replaced to an individual without charge however deficiencies (losses) or items willfully damaged are billed for upon replacement and a sum deducted from the individuals pay. The price is a representative figure, not necessarily the replacement cost or value! The figures shown are for stores use when filling in the bill (Form P1954).

Andy

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by Sonofacqms

By 1926 many of these Cavalry badges would have been obsolete due to the 1922 amalgamations, so surplus to requirements I suppose.

Rob

Rob,
even though the amalgamations took place c.1922 many of the newly formed combinations retained their individual cap badges at squadron level for many years after. Many of the newly formed Regiments would have worn two different cap badges. The Life Guards (lLG & 2LG) for example retained individual cap badges until c.1937, there was no GvR or EviiiR pattern "Life Guards" ORs badges despite what is in K&K and other publications.

Andy

[John Mulcahy]

If I recall correctly (I am away from my references) one squadron of the amalgamated regiments were badged as the junior regiment until about 1929.

So the junior regiments insignia remained on official issue.

Feel free to correct the date anyone if I do not manage to do it in a timely manner.

John

[John Mulcahy]

see post # 8 in the thread below for some ACI details considering the wearing of insignia by amalgamated Cav Rgts up to 1929

http://britishbadgeforum.com/forums/...n+Guards+title

From Linaker & Dine page 21 " The PVCN 1923 lists all the cap and collar badges for the junior amalgamated regiments but in italics, showing the to be obsolescent. The corresponding arm badges are omitted. Up to 1929 this was premature as the Army Order(AO 133/1922) for amalgamation stated both the combining regiments were to continue to preserve their individual traditions.."

And from 5th Royal Inniskilling Dragoon Guards Change & Challenge 1928 - 1978 "A regimental plan for the unification of dress was approved during 1927/28. The dstinctions of the two regiments were fairly divided; for example the badge of the senior regiment to be worn on the cap and the badge of the junior on the collar"

John

[KLR]

Thanks Marc, very useful. I had in fact recorded the King's info from the 1926 PVCN but it occurs to me to ask if the document has a more specific date within that year ?
(I'd be interested to know if 1580 refers to the 1896 or 1926 Pattern - the latter authorised in September 1926)

It should be noted that until 1933 the Vocabulary / Catalogue number changed with each issue of the PVCN / VCN. For example the King's cap badge in PVCN 1929 is cat 2061. After 1933 (when CB numbers were introduced) these numbers remained constant but covered the item even when replaced by a new pattern. The 1940 List of badges etc at RAOC Branston has the King's as cat 0349 - which remained the same in the new CCN 1949 list.
thanks
J

PS do you have any of the very early PVCNs - ie from 1904 onwards ?

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

If I recall correctly (I am away from my references) one squadron of the amalgamated regiments were badged as the junior regiment until about 1929.

So the junior regiments insignia remained on official issue.

Feel free to correct the date anyone if I do not manage to do it in a timely manner.

John

John

This is reflected in the late 1920's sealed pattern dates of the new designs for the merged regtl badges.

Alan

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by KLR

Thanks Marc, very useful. I had in fact recorded the King's info from the 1926 PVCN but it occurs to me to ask if the document has a more specific date within that year ?
(I'd be interested to know if 1580 refers to the 1896 or 1926 Pattern - the latter authorised in September 1926)
PS do you have any of the very early PVCNs - ie from 1904 onwards ?

This is what is on the cover:

Issued with Army Orders for February, 1926.

By Command of the Army Council, The War Office 12th March 1926.

Receiving unit stamp dated 28 Apr 1926.

And I have just realised I am a few pages missing. At the moment I am unable to get to the little cupboard, when I can I will let you know what dates are there.

Marc

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by Alan O

John

This is reflected in the late 1920's sealed pattern dates of the new designs for the merged regtl badges.

Alan

By now it is well established that the antecedent regiments continued to wear their own insignia into the late 1920's. I recently picked up a copy of Short history of the 4th Royal Irish Dragoon Guards, 1685-1922, 7th (Princess Royal's) Dragoon Guards, 1688-1922, 4th/7th Royal Dragoon Guards, 1922-1939 Gale & Polden 1943.

For the purposes of further completion, the attached scan from the book shows that it was 1929 when this regiment began to take into use its new insignia and that the antecedent badges and insignia continued to be used by the respective squadrons up until that time.

Fitting perfectly not only with the sealing dates of the new insignia but also the continued issue of the antecedent items in 1926

John

[Alan O]

John,

Great bit of research there.

Thanks for posting.

Alan