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  #1  
Old 23-09-08, 05:17 AM
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Default Firmin Maker Marks - Anodised Aluminium Cap Badges

Hi Guys,

On anodised aluminium cap badges, the maker marked his badges in one of three ways:

a) FIRMIN & SONS

b) FIRMIN (as a single world but in a variety of styles)

c) F&S

Does anyone know what came first and the date of changes to second and third forms?

Regards

Chris
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  #2  
Old 23-09-08, 10:25 AM
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You have forgotten the Firmin London mark as shown in this thread.
Regards,
Kevin
http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...7&postcount=19
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  #3  
Old 23-09-08, 08:15 PM
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Thanks Kevin,

I had it in my notes but forgot it on the posting.

Lets try again:

Hi Guys,

On anodised aluminium cap badges, the maker marked his badges in one of three ways:

a) FIRMIN & SONS

b) FIRMIN (as a single world but in a variety of styles)

c) F&S

c) FIRMIN LONDON (in a variety of styles)

Does anyone know what came first and the date of changes to second, third and fourth forms?

Regards

Chris
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  #4  
Old 24-09-08, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hagwalther View Post
Thanks Kevin,

I had it in my notes but forgot it on the posting.

Lets try again:

Hi Guys,

On anodised aluminium cap badges, the maker marked his badges in one of three ways:

a) FIRMIN & SONS

b) FIRMIN (as a single world but in a variety of styles)

c) F&S

c) FIRMIN LONDON (in a variety of styles)

Does anyone know what came first and the date of changes to second, third and fourth forms?

Regards

Chris
The latest stamping, I'm fairly sure, is the plain FIRMIN. The anodised Firmin badges we see in plastic packets are all dated over the last 10 years or so and just have the makers name stamped in a fairly large font on the slider.
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  #5  
Old 24-09-08, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bess55 View Post
The latest stamping, I'm fairly sure, is the plain FIRMIN. The anodised Firmin badges we see in plastic packets are all dated over the last 10 years or so and just have the makers name stamped in a fairly large font on the slider.
Damn, Stupid here should have thought of that as I have a few badges in unopened packets.

Royal Artillery OR Cap Badge - marked FIRMIN to slider dated 01/10/03
WRAF Cap Badge - Marked with curved FIRMIN to body dated 21/01/93
Royal Anglian Regt Cap Badge - marked FIRMIN to slider dated 27/01/05

OK, that puts 'FIRMIN' last in the order - how about the rest?

Any other ideas out there and I wonder why this is important....

Regards

Chris
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  #6  
Old 24-09-08, 09:28 AM
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This is what I have found so far, not sure what it all means:

In 1875 the firm became a Ltd Co with these addresses:
Firmin & sons. 153 The Strand London (1875-1894)
Firmin & sons. 13 Conduit St. London (1838)
Firmin & sons. 20 Stanhope St.
Firmin & sons. 108 St. Martins Lane London (1895-1915)
Firmin & sons. Globe Works, Villa Street, Aston Birmingham (1892)
Firmin & sons. Cork St. (1915)
Firmin & sons. 81 Ford St. London (1968)
Firmin & sons. Newtown Row. Birmingham. (from 1971)

Interesting Firmin Tidbits, provided directly from Darren Reynolds of Firmin!
Firmin was located at Conduit Street from 1838 to 1879.
In 1882 Firmin and Sons opened a factory in St Paul's Square in Birmingham which remained there till 1892.
In 1892 the factory moved to Globe Works in Villa Street, Aston, Birmingham.
In 1971 the factory moved from Aston to Newtown Row where Firmin continues to manufacture buttons today.
In 1981 Firmin became Firmin and Sons, PLC.
In 1994 Firmin's London office closed.
Firmin from then on based solely at Firmin House in Newtown Row, Birmingham.
In 2006 Firmin reverted to Firmin and Sons Ltd.
J R Gaunt and Son was bought by Firmin and Sons in 1991 and remains part of Firmin and Sons Ltd today.

Rgds,
fougasse1940.
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  #7  
Old 24-09-08, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fougasse1940 View Post
This is what I have found so far, not sure what it all means:

In 1875 the firm became a Ltd Co with these addresses:
Firmin & sons. 153 The Strand London (1875-1894)
Firmin & sons. 13 Conduit St. London (1838)
Firmin & sons. 20 Stanhope St.
Firmin & sons. 108 St. Martins Lane London (1895-1915)
Firmin & sons. Globe Works, Villa Street, Aston Birmingham (1892)
Firmin & sons. Cork St. (1915)
Firmin & sons. 81 Ford St. London (1968)
Firmin & sons. Newtown Row. Birmingham. (from 1971)

Interesting Firmin Tidbits, provided directly from Darren Reynolds of Firmin!
Firmin was located at Conduit Street from 1838 to 1879.
In 1882 Firmin and Sons opened a factory in St Paul's Square in Birmingham which remained there till 1892.
In 1892 the factory moved to Globe Works in Villa Street, Aston, Birmingham.
In 1971 the factory moved from Aston to Newtown Row where Firmin continues to manufacture buttons today.
In 1981 Firmin became Firmin and Sons, PLC.
In 1994 Firmin's London office closed.
Firmin from then on based solely at Firmin House in Newtown Row, Birmingham.
In 2006 Firmin reverted to Firmin and Sons Ltd.
J R Gaunt and Son was bought by Firmin and Sons in 1991 and remains part of Firmin and Sons Ltd today.

Rgds,
fougasse1940.
Many Thanks Fougasse1940.

Something to think about.

I think we can put 'Firmin London' as a timeline ending in 1994 but possibly starting at any time during the anodised era.

Many Thanks

Chris
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  #8  
Old 26-07-13, 12:59 PM
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Chris

Would you date these two "FIRMIN&SONS" makers mark at the same time period? (I can also demonstrate the same with the FIRMIN LONDON mark on an AA Motto and White Metal ... 1950s both)

AA = Royal Artillery
Brz Brass = 17/21L - Very probably a repro'
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FirminandSonsSlider3.jpg (30.9 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg image (2).jpg (54.7 KB, 57 views)
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Last edited by GriffMJ; 01-11-13 at 01:35 PM.
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  #9  
Old 26-07-13, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GriffMJ View Post
Chris

Would you date these two "FIRMIN&SONS" makers mark at the same time period? (I can also demonstrate the same with the FIRMIN LONDON mark on an AA Motto and White Metal ... 1950s both)

AA = Royal Artillery
Brz Brass = 17/21L
Hi Griff,

Have a look on page 45 of Chapter 6: Manufacturer’s Markings. While I don't fully know when the mark (Mark 2.5) was used (never found a badge with this mark on pattern cards etc.) I have commented that it was possibly used in the late 1980's.

What you need to do is to get hold of some digital calipers and measure both of the marks on the two badges. You also need a 20-30x loupe to check for flaws in the characters and see if you can conclusively reconcile the two marks as coming from the same punch. From a couple of images on the forum this is really not possible.

The other thing you need to take on board is that while the marks may be from the same punch there is no way of knowing when the badges were actually stamped. Many years ago or last week? While marks to the sliders of A/A badges are, for the main, usually genuine it may well be a very different matter regarding non-A/A badges.

Regards

Chris
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  #10  
Old 27-07-13, 10:35 AM
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Chris

The 1980s certainly fits perfectly with the Bronzed Brass Motto..... so there is no reason to doubt the RA badge being in that same period.

Many thanks
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  #11  
Old 26-10-13, 10:10 AM
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The very small type "firmin london" is found on a lot of the older badges
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  #12  
Old 01-11-13, 01:25 PM
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I picked this up recently with a few yeomanry badges, I will shortly be showing. Small letters 7mm (L) x 1.5mm (H)
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File Type: jpg 7th Queen's Own Hussars FIRMIN LONDON.jpg (60.1 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1317.jpg (55.4 KB, 52 views)
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  #13  
Old 01-11-13, 01:40 PM
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There is the "NEW" Firmin mark- <>FIRMIN<> DIAMOND FIRMIN DIAMOND which I beleive came out in 2011 ish.
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  #14  
Old 01-11-13, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engr9266 View Post
There is the "NEW" Firmin mark- <>FIRMIN<> DIAMOND FIRMIN DIAMOND which I beleive came out in 2011 ish.
I wonder if this then is the mark for the new company?
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  #15  
Old 01-11-13, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockape View Post
I picked this up recently with a few yeomanry badges, I will shortly be showing. Small letters 7mm (L) x 1.5mm (H)
This is the mark I was referring to earlier .
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