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  #1  
Old 16-08-17, 03:03 PM
grumpy grumpy is offline
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Default Colour sergeants' badges in Victoria's time

I have just received a copy of QVR 1844 in wonderful condition, and have been dipping in and out.

One item reminded me of an old bee in the bonnet: was the colour serg/jeants colour badge always the Union Flag [excluding Foot Guards], or was it ever the Regimental Colour [essentially the facing colour plus embellishments]?

QVR 1844 unequivocally prescribe the latter, because there is a detailed description of the full-size colours which is insistent that The Regimental, or Second, Colour is to be of the colour of the facings of the regiment ...... that it places the title in italics thus..

When describing colour sergeants' badges, it says " a badge of the Regimental Colour", again italicised.

Many years ago, when my interest in matters military was general, rather than specific, I saw in a regimental museum a colour badge that appeared to be not a Union Flag ....... where and when I did not note.

Major Dawnay, in his definitive "Badges of WO and NCO Rank" says that GO 6th July 1813 indeed prescribes a regimental colour, but that a Secretary of State's letter dated 27th July 1813 illustrated a Union Flag.

So is there any evidence please [other than my elusive memory] that some line regiments obeyed the letter of the Order and used a regimental colour as the basis of the colour sergeants' badges?

I have also posted on the the Victorian War forum
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Old 16-08-17, 03:52 PM
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manchesters manchesters is offline
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I have an interest in such and can say I have never seen one.

regards
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Old 16-08-17, 04:28 PM
grumpy grumpy is offline
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Thank you.

All I have to do [!] is revisit every military museum that I have ever visited over the last 60 years [thinks ........ a lot will have closed/ moved/burnt down ...........]
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Old 16-08-17, 04:37 PM
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Good luck with that!!
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  #5  
Old 16-08-17, 07:01 PM
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Toby Purcell Toby Purcell is offline
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It's an interesting subject as I can imagine that the original intent might well have been for 'regimental' colour badges. However, I have seen no material evidence of any badge, but single 'Sovereign's' colours in facing colour for Foot Guards and union colour for line infantry. As I believe that badges were expensive and provided via a central supply chain it seems logical that they should have been of standard design, for the two respective elements. There seems to have been some kind of financial compromise, in that the Foot Guard badges did differ regimentally, but the line infantry regiments did not.

Interestingly there is some evidence of Dominion variations to the much later, crossed colours badges, especially from the Antipodes.
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Old 17-08-17, 09:43 AM
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I have no visibility of the cost of the badges in the Victorian era. Surprisingly, by PVCN 1907 the "two colours" colour badge was the same price as many of the more complicated embroidered prize badges, around 2/- in old money. This was twice the daily pay for a private soldier of course. [The Foot Guards badges were more like 5/-].

1907 was the transition year when as many embroidered badges as possible were being replaced by gilding metal, driven by economy. By PVCN 1914 a large number of badges had become metal.
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Old 18-08-17, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
I have no visibility of the cost of the badges in the Victorian era. Surprisingly, by PVCN 1907 the "two colours" colour badge was the same price as many of the more complicated embroidered prize badges, around 2/- in old money. This was twice the daily pay for a private soldier of course. [The Foot Guards badges were more like 5/-].

1907 was the transition year when as many embroidered badges as possible were being replaced by gilding metal, driven by economy. By PVCN 1914 a large number of badges had become metal.
The cost you quote, albeit later, rather puts the matter in context and I could not help but reflect that there is no way that a badge costing twice a man's daily pay would be considered now.
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