Searching for pictures of chainmail epaulettes in North Africa during WWII

[WWIIBuff]

Hello Gents,

Does anyone have period pictures they can post of Yeomanry or Calvary soldiers wearing chain-mail epaulettes on their uniform in WWII?

Thanks

John

[badjez]

John,

I'm intrigued why you should enquire, please elucidate.

So far as I'm aware no Order of Dress that would have had chain mail epaulettes would have been authorised for wear post-1940 as everyone wore battledress, service dress or a mixture. Do you know something we don't?

Stephen.

[JerryBB]

Originally Posted by badjez

John,

I'm intrigued why you should enquire, please elucidate.

So far as I'm aware no Order of Dress that would have had chain mail epaulettes would have been authorised for wear post-1940 as everyone wore battledress, service dress or a mixture. Do you know something we don't?

Stephen.

Stephen, he is trying to restore a WWII KD tunic with hooks for the chain mail still on it. There is a thread in the cavalry section about it, showing the tunic.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ad.php?t=51195

[badjez]

Thanks Jerry. I'm still intrigued as the combination of KD and chain mail is incongruous.

Stephen.

[GriffMJ]

John

I think you need to look at that jacket again, is "1941" printed in the label or is it written in the label?

When I first saw that jacket I considered it to be a jacket worn in Egypt/India Post WW1. The hooks on the shoulders are for the standard Cavalry shoulder chains.

Can you show an image of a button on the jacket..... the label as well?

[JerryBB]

Obviously I am meant to be working but

A close up of the label but not so good on the buttons.

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by WWIIBuff

Hello Gents,

Does anyone have period pictures they can post of Yeomanry or Calvary soldiers wearing chain-mail epaulettes on their uniform in WWII?

Thanks

John

One can scarcely get more Yeomanry Cavalry than the RWY. Here's a kit list dated 1931. I think that the last wearers of chain mail on Service Dress were the DOLY. Mike
Yeo.RWY_Kit_List_1931.jpg
PS. I think Calvary soldiers were Roman?

[GriffMJ]

1st Royal Dragoons
Singapore, late 1950s.

* No NCO Arm badge in TD. It is seen on BD. "Black" melton cloth under the chains.



John

I have a nagging doubt about the medal ribbons on your jacket. In 1951 The Royals embarked for Egypt, where they spent three years on internal security duties, necessitated by the Egyptian attitude towards the British in the Suez Canal Zone. I think your jacket is used in that period...

1938/40
The Royal Dragoons were in Palestine, engaged in internal security duties, during the troubles between Arabs and Jews.
The Regiment's last mounted parade was on Waterloo Day, 1940, and in December of that year they moved to Egypt to become mechanised.
They then became an Armoured Car Regiment, reviving at last their original reconnaissance role as Dragoons.

1940/1
After mechanisation, 'A' Squadron went to join the 11th Hussars in the Western Desert, while 'B' Squadron moved to Syria to take part in the campaign against the Vichy French.
Shortly afterwards, R.H.Q. and 'C' Squadron went to the Western Desert, but after a few weeks R.H.Q. and 'A' Squadron joined 'B' Squadron in Syria, leaving 'C' Squadron in the Western Desert.
On conclusion of the armistice in Syria, the Regiment moved north to Aleppo to patrol the Syrian-Turkish border, where they were later joined by 'C' Squadron.

1941
In December 1941, The Royal Dragoons joined the Eighth Army in the Western Desert, advancing with it to Benghazi - they were the first troops to enter the city on Christmas Day, 1941 - and on to Agedabia.
During Rommel's counter-offensive of January 1942, they acted as flank and rearguard for the withdrawal to the Gazala line, and the subsequent retreat from Tobruk.
After the stabilisation of the line at El Alamein, apart from a month's rest in order to refit, the Royals were on constant patrol duty.

[WWIIBuff]

Yes as Jerry has stated, I am trying to restore a uniform I recently picked up. Naturally there could have been some changes made to it after the war by the veteran or a collector, but being a new collector to the British militaria world, I don't have the knowledge to make that call yet.

When I was told the hooks were for chainmail, I also thought post-WWI, but the label definitely says 1941 and it is not written in. Of course the ribbons may not be original to the tunic either, but then why add WWI ribbons?

Here is a closeup picture of one of the buttons, but naturally they could have been switched out at some point as well. Hence the reason for my search for pictures of chainmail being worn during that period and in that theatre of war.

Since this is a badge forum, I wasn't sure how much I could ask about a uniform, but was this type of jacket only worn as a parade dress, our could it have been used for walking-out as well?

[NorthStafford]

It looks very much to me like a "personalised" jacket. The epaulettes seem to have been cut of and the hooks added.

[badjez]

The label relates to a No2 (Green) uniform which was introduced in 1932, but as normal the colour has washed out.

In 1942 a new austerity pattern of KD was introduced, but by 1943 the KD jacket was no longer considered essential for officers as the bush shirt was favoured, and olive green uniforms were becoming available in the Far East.

The OR KD Jacket was still in use by OR in 1949, but ceased to be issued in Feb 1950 (although those in possession could still be worn).

I wonder if this jacket is wartime stock re-issued post-war with shoulder chains. I cannot explain the medal ribbons, unless this jacket has at some time been a theatrical prop.

Stephen.

[Gurkha]

Those hooks on the sleeve and by the pocket look far to low to be for shoulder chains?
Steve

[Phil2M]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Those hooks on the sleeve and by the pocket look far to low to be for shoulder chains?
Steve

Im glad you said that, as I too thought the same in comparison to the photograph of the soldier wearing chains.

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by Phil2M

Im glad you said that, as I too thought the same in comparison to the photograph of the soldier wearing chains.

How about Bandsman's wings, they fall rather low on the arm?

Then again after looking at a few images (on the internet) of chainmail being worn some do fall a long way.

Marc

[WWIIBuff]

Unfortunately I am beginning to think that perhaps this uniform was messed with a bit.