SEEKING POSITIVE IDENTIFICATION OF FORMATION SIGN PAINTED ROYAL ARTILLERY HELMET

[FMT600]

Hi,

Can anyone please confirm the following for me regarding the attached photo of a British camouflage painted helmet complete with painted formation badge:

1. The unit, (I believe it to be 66 Heavy Anti Aircraft Regiment Royal Artillery).

2. When likely to be worn (I believe it to be either shortly before the outbreak of war, possible 1938 onwards to early WW2), but am not completely sure of the dates between which it was more common for some units to paint their helmets.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards,

FMT600

[54Bty]

The only oddity I have for the 66th (Leeds Rifles, The West Yorkshire Regiment) Anti Aircraft Brigade Royal Artillery (TA) and its later titles is, the Ribbon of the WWI French Croix de Guerre.

Maybe it is a pre-conversion Battalion flash?

Marc

[FMT600]

Hi Marc,

Many thanks for your post, you are correct about 66th Heavy AA Brigade/Regiment and subsequent descendant's wearing the Croix De Guerre (on both upper sleeves).

I'm led to believe that the helmet is attributed to the Leeds Rifles, the museum its in believes it was worn in WW2, (hence trying to establish the period for painting helmets) which if the case would have to be either Royal Artillery or Royal Tank regiment. The colours of the flash are red/green, the same as the Croix De Guerre, which is correct for 8th west Yorks/66th Heavy AA, and wrong for 45 & 51 RTR but as you point out possibly its pre 66th Heavy and dates back to the 8th Battalion infantry days. I'm hoping to see if there are any manufactures details inside the helmet that will help to date it, but wont be able to do that for some time. I'm wondering if anyone can enlighten us as to the wherever the use of the diamond is significant in identifying the arm of service, I'm no Royal Artillery expert but of know that the Royal artillery (using red & blue of course) used the diamond shape for puggaree and slouch hat badges, I'm wondering if it was also used on the steel helmet.

Kind Regards,

FMT600

[GregN]

Hi All, attached is a transfer from my album on helmet transfers or decals.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=29583

I assume hand-painted symbols would be different than the standardized transfer from a commercial producer.

Greg

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by GregN

Hi All, attached is a transfer from my album on helmet transfers or decals.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=29583

I assume hand-painted symbols would be different than the standardized transfer from a commercial producer.

Greg

Well I have to say your 99th is a new one on me. Not mentioned in any reference I have, must have slipped the net.

Marc

[FMT600]

Originally Posted by GregN

Hi All, attached is a transfer from my album on helmet transfers or decals.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=29583

I assume hand-painted symbols would be different than the standardized transfer from a commercial producer.

Greg

Hi Greg,

Many thanks for your post and for the link to the helmet transfer which make an interesting development. I have to admit that in all the pre/early war photos I have of 66 heavy AA Regt which I revisited this afternoons there are non with camouflage painted helmets or formation signs on the helmet, I have one photo that was captioned for 66H and dated 1938 which I'm convinced is wrong showing red/blue painted RA diamonds on 2 of the helmets but no arm ribbons, hopefully I will get a bit more information from the museum in due course and will of course mention the close resemblance to your helmet transfer.

Cheers

FMT600

[ASR142]

Hi FMT600
Helmets just prior to WWII would have had in a majority of cases unit markings a few examples that I have had in the past and freinds have now in there collections :
1938 HAC this example was a private purchase officers helmet with there badge on it
1939 Royal Hampshire regt helmet hampshire badge and flash saidly destroyed in a fire 5 years ago
1940 malta cammo with RA flash to the side
verious RASC , RAMC , RA RAOC examples that can be seen on my web site which have sold they all follow a pattern and are all dated 1940 or earlier and fall in line with army instructions ( not RA examples with the red and blue flash which go beyond this year ) to not applie unit markings to helmets and to remove any that are on them . whic if i rember was made out in 1941 some one here might know .
so going by this information its a early war example and the helmet would be dated and liner also I would say a pre 1941 one . regarsd steve

[FMT600]

Steve,
Many thanks indeed for your detailed post, particularly so with the information regarding the instruction to sober up helmets and bring them all in to line and of course the time line was something else I was trying to establish. Once I have landed and the dust has settled I will try to get hold of my POC at the museum who hold the helmet in my original post and see if I can get any further information from them.

Kind regards,
Marcus

Originally Posted by ASR142

Hi FMT600
Helmets just prior to WWII would have had in a majority of cases unit markings a few examples that I have had in the past and freinds have now in there collections :
1938 HAC this example was a private purchase officers helmet with there badge on it
1939 Royal Hampshire regt helmet hampshire badge and flash saidly destroyed in a fire 5 years ago
1940 malta cammo with RA flash to the side
verious RASC , RAMC , RA RAOC examples that can be seen on my web site which have sold they all follow a pattern and are all dated 1940 or earlier and fall in line with army instructions ( not RA examples with the red and blue flash which go beyond this year ) to not applie unit markings to helmets and to remove any that are on them . whic if i rember was made out in 1941 some one here might know .
so going by this information its a early war example and the helmet would be dated and liner also I would say a pre 1941 one . regarsd steve