Honourable Artillery Company beret badges

[3dg]

Hello
I'm a bit confused about the various HAC beret badges and when they were worn.
Could someone possible give me a Time line as it were from the blue beret and beret gun badge to the infantry beret with the Arms badge. And for both officers and OR's please.
I know it's a big ask but I've seen red backings officers and OR's black backings gun badges, grenade badges and coat of arms badge, all a bit confusing!
Thanks for your time again.
Cheers
3dg :-)

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by 3dg

Hello
I'm a bit confused about the various HAC beret badges and when they were worn.
Could someone possible give me a Time line as it were from the blue beret and beret gun badge to the infantry beret with the Arms badge. And for both officers and OR's please.
I know it's a big ask but I've seen red backings officers and OR's black backings gun badges, grenade badges and coat of arms badge, all a bit confusing!
Thanks for your time again.
Cheers
3dg :-)

3dg,

I am not able at this stage to provide you with dates, but can offer a little info with regard to the infantry beret and related badges:



This khaki infantry beret is worn by all ranks of the regiment with combat dress; rank is differentiated by cap badges. The embroidered badge of the HAC crest is worn by officers and warrant officers, whilst all other ranks wear the HAC crest in silver metal. Additionally, the members of the Corps of Drums, wear a silver grenade on their berets.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge of HAC headdresses will be able to give you a better, more comprehensive answer.

Regards,

JT

[Jelly Terror]

Artillery officer's side cap - circa 1970s.

Forum member 'johnG', is possibly your best man for this query.

Regards,

JT

[3dg]

Great pics, and thank you for the info so far, greatly appreciated, and its 'crest' not coat of arms, my apologies for that.

[grenadierguardsman]

Yes really good pics.
Andy

[Colin S]

The following was true in the 1980/1990s and I think still apply today.

Khaki berets - officers wear embroidered 'short arms' on black backing (as shown above). Other ranks wear same badge in silver coloured metal on black circular badge backing.

HAC Band/Corps of Drums wear a silver flaming grenade on their khaki berets on a square of Household Division badge backing.

No.1 Dress peaked caps - metal flaming grenade when marching as Infantry or gold metal HAC gun badge if part of gun detachment.The grenade badges differ with rank - ORs wearing plain silver, while warrant officers have the 'HAC' in gold on their silver metal grenades and officers wear a bullion embroidered flaming grenade badge.

Officer's side hat - embroidered 'short arms' on red backing, as shown above.

I believe that the short arms were adopted as a beret badge in 1973, when the HAC Artillery and Infantry units were amalgamated and re-roled as a Corps Patrol Unit (stay behind OPs) and adopted cavalry terms - "trooper", "sabre squadron" etc. The blue beret was replaced by the khaki beret then.

[3dg]

Thank you, appreciated. So before the 'Short Arms' was adopted in the 70's, I take it the beret Gun badge was worn by the Artillery side, and the embroided grenade badge or silver anodised for the infantry side ?

[Colin S]

Yes, as far as I know.

[3dg]

Thanks again all.
I know there are beret size HAC gun badges in both KC and QC in G/M and QC in anodised all for the OR's, I've not come across a Gilt or embroidered KC or QC beret HAC badge for officers, so what did the Artillery HAC officers wear on the beret pre 1970's before the short arms badge please?
Thanks again for your time

[3dg]

Also there seems to be a lack of photos for the HAC in the 50's 60's 70's online so you can work out badges etc, unless I'm looking in totally the wrong place.

[fairlie63]

Hi 3dg

I have Action Front by James Colquhoun, the history of C Bty HAC and it shows the full size gun badge being worn on forage caps and berets from 1948. By 1951 the small beret badge appears, although that might just be my eyes.

However by 1960 the 'short arms' are being worn on the beret on a red circular backing. The large gun badge was still worn on the forage cap in No 1 Dress and OSD up to the 1970s at least.

Keith

[3dg]

Thank you Keith, all seems to be becoming clearer now.
So, this is what I think, I'll stand corrected if told differently.
50's/60's Artillery OR's: HAC gun badge large then beret size GM flat and fixed wheel kings crown.
As above but beret size gun badge QC, and later anodised.
Sometime in the Early 60's the 'short arms' badge with a red backing.
Then 70's after merge with the infantry side, 'short arms' with black backing.

Officers beret, still no idea if a gilt KC or QC beret gun badge was produced or did they simply wear the bullion embroidered short arms badge?

Thanks for your time again chaps

[Mike H]

The WO's grenade badge is also found in silver anodised with gold letters. It was worn for a very short period of time around 1970 1972 ish. They are pretty scarce.

[3dg]

Thanks Mike H, appreciated.
So the infantry side on the beret wore anodised grenade, WO Sgt's gold/silver and J/NCO's silver, maybe metal ones issued?? Later the worsted grenade badge? Officers bullion grenade or short arms??
Still have no idea about pre 70's Artillery officers beret badge?? Anyone?

[Mike H]

Have you tried the IWM collections ?