Royal Artillery Badge Question

[Tim B.]

As I do not yet have any badges of my own to show here, I am stuck asking questions and requesting some photo examples for those inclined to assist me in getting an accurate example for my RFA guy.

So, I have an enlisted guy, who was in a Territorial Royal Field Artillery brigade and originally had a 4-digit number assigned.

Then, in 1917, he was issued a 6-digit number that crosses over to the 2nd Northumbrian Brigade, RFA TF, which was re-designated the 251st Brigade, RFA TF in the 50th Division.

As shown on his MIC, he went to France and Flanders on 20 April 1915, which is supported by his 6-digit number.

I have his trio, 1914/'15 Star/BWM/VIC and would like to get a correct cap badge he would have worn.

Questions that come to mind:

- As he was a "territorial", does that mean his badge is of the TF design, with the leaves?

- What about once he entered the War Theatre: (20 April 1915)?

- Did the 2nd Northumbrian Brigade, RFA TF have a specific badge or does he just wear a standard Royal Artillery pattern badge?

Can I see some examples of what he would have been wearing?

Thanks in advance!
Tim

[Alan O]

He would have been issued, and worn for the duration of his service, the RA badge with the TF laurel wreaths.

Following 1916 any replacement badge would have had Ubique on it.

In 1916 the unpierced (ie solid centre) Ubique version was authorised for issue before a return to the unpierced version with a modified slider in 1917.

the TF version comes with varying numbers of laurel leaves but there is no unit designation.

For pictures: http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...id=1933&page=3

[Tim B.]

Thanks Alan,

So, providing Carrick didn't actually lose or need a replacement cap badge, then there was no requirement for him to change the original territorial design badge over to the version with Ubique on it?

As there is no unit significance to the number of leaves, was there a timeline or other significance other than perhaps manufacturer's, that stipulate what a person in the TF might have been issued prior to 1916?

Last question; As Carrick was in the TF at least by early 1915, would his OR badge have loops, blades, or slider? Sorry if I didn't get the correct terminology, but I think you know what I am referring to.

Tim

[Alan O]

Many TF soldiers retained their TF badges past 1916. They should have exchanged them to follow dress regs but there was lots of exceptions.

No one has dated the leaves - any time between 1908-16. A maker's variation is most likely.

Sliders were the norm for ORs. Officers wore blades and lugs were seen on pre 1908 Vols badge but not on later TF ones.

[Tim B.]

New question as I browse sale items;

What is the difference in crown designs?

The vast majority of badges I've seen have the crown with the curved top. There is another where the top is more contoured, some referred to as the "Queen's Crown" pattern.

Tim

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by Tim B.

New question as I browse sale items;

What is the difference in crown designs?

The vast majority of badges I've seen have the crown with the curved top. There is another where the top is more contoured, some referred to as the "Queen's Crown" pattern.

Tim

For the Royal Regiment of Artillery; since 1902 what is commonly known as a King's Crown was used on cap badges, it was changed in 1955 to what is commonly called a Queen's Crown (St. Edward's Crown).

What you require is a badge with the King's Crown.

Marc

[Tim B.]

Hi Marc,

Good to know, thank you!

Tim

[JerryBB]

Officers version of the TF Arty cap badge, design is (largely) the same as the OR's for all badges and periods, the only change is the crown mentioned previously and the laurel leaves for the TF. I thought the change was in 1917, but...

[Tim B.]

Thanks Jerry!

A man after my own heart; I too like illustrating my posts with good photos that others can use as reference, much appreciated!

Once I start actually having some of my own to show...

Tim

[badger123]

A couple of TF badges that I was offered (but not in my area of interest so declined).

So does this make them wrong if they are post 1908 with lugs as suggested? They look OK to me.

Ivan

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by JBBOND

Officers version of the TF Arty cap badge, design is (largely) the same as the OR's for all badges and periods, the only change is the crown mentioned previously and the laurel leaves for the TF. I thought the change was in 1917, but...

You are right about the Regular Ubique being authorised in 1917. KLR has the unearthed the exact date somewhere but I can't find it.

[Tim B.]

Ivan,

That I don't know, they do look good to me as well but, I'm new and know very little at this point. I assume gilt officer versions based on my limited knowledge thus far?

I think I remember reading where someone (Alan?) in an older thread stating badges with lugs and sliders are definitely bad except one of the Scots' badges. Don't quote me on this.

I'm sure others more knowledgeable than I will comment.

Tim

[Alan O]

Not my opinion - exactly the opposite as the 1947 era RA small gun badge had both lugs and a slider on the same badge.

Ivan's badges are the first ones I have seen with lugs. They both look fine. The lugs are the correct configuration for the Vols badges that preceded them which ties in nicely.

[Tim B.]

Not sure who then, just remember reading it in one of the past threads.

Agree, the lugs without feet, look good to me. These would be "officer" insignia though, correct?

Tim

[Alan O]

I think officers would be made with fold over blades.