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  #16  
Old 16-02-17, 01:24 AM
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Hi Martin

Yep, probably in my haste to read the information, I did misunderstand what you were saying. My comprehension was possibly also "coloured" by the theory of the "letter" denoting a trade/region that I read somewhere.

I think that your idea makes a LOT more sense than the previous "theory" so a real, hearty "thanks" for a very readable, well-thought out piece.

If you really want to talk "unworkable" system, I can talk about the system that was initially put in place for allocating WW1 service numbers to NZ servicemen. It did work, after a fashion, but only when they started from scratch and more or less gave up what was called the "bar" number. No this wasn't anything to do with the "wet canteen".....
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  #17  
Old 16-02-17, 09:07 PM
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Default 1915 ‘On War Service’ alphanumeric series makers

Hi dumdum

No worries, glad the latest posting has helped clarify my thoughts on matters. For what it’s worth below are the makers I’ve seen for the various lettered series of the 1915 ‘On War Service’ badges; not including the ‘J’ series, of course, which seem to be the reissued ones:

‘K’ series = “Thomas Fattorini Bolton”, “J. R. Gaunt & Son Ltd London” & “Woolley & Co (Birm) Ltd”
‘L’ series = “J. R. Gaunt & Son Ltd London”
‘M’ series = “J. R. Gaunt & Son Ltd London Warranted Fire Gilt”
‘N’ series = “J. R. Gaunt & Son Ltd London”
‘P’ series = “D. G. Collins Newgate St London Warranted Fire Gilt”
‘Q’ series = “Thomas Fattorini Bolton Warranted Best Gilt”
‘R’ series = “Mappin & Webb Ltd Sheffield & London”
‘S’ series = “J. R. Gaunt Ltd London”
‘T’ series = “Woolley & Co (Birm) Ltd”, “Thomas Fattorini Bolton”, “J. A. Wylie & Co London” & “H. Jenkins & Sons Ltd Birmingham”
‘U’ series = “J. A. Wylie & Co London” & “D. G. Collins Newgate St London Warranted Fire Gilt”
‘V’ series = “J. A. Wylie & Co London”
‘X’ series = “Woolley & Co (Birm) Ltd”, “H. B. Sale Ltd Birmingham” & “T. Fattorini Bolton”/“Thomas Fattorini Bolton”
‘Z’ series = “J. R. Gaunt & Son Ltd London” & “J. A. Wylie & Co London”

If anyone can add to the above I’d be very pleased to hear about, or see pictures of, any badges concerned.

Best regards

Martin
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Interested in style and variation of post-1893 regimental cap badges for the Leicesters, the Northamptons, the Warwicks, the K.L.R., the R.W.F. and the D.C.L.I.

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  #18  
Old 17-02-17, 12:15 AM
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Hi Martin

Thanks again for this. You must have read my mind as I plan to upload some pics of a few of my 1914 and 1915 badges.

Your comments will be most welcome. I think that there might be a couple of wee "treasures" there! Keep an eye out for one that has the "Warranted Fire Gilt" with "fire" OVERSTAMPED with the word "BEST"!

Say, what?
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  #19  
Old 17-02-17, 12:48 AM
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Hi Martin

Here are the pics. Feel free to comment!
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File Type: jpg owsa 020.jpg (30.5 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg owsg.jpg (24.5 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg owsh.jpg (25.2 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg owsj.jpg (29.7 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg owsa 001 (2).jpg (20.5 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg owsa 005.jpg (26.9 KB, 20 views)
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  #20  
Old 17-02-17, 12:57 AM
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And a few more......

NB: 1915 badges WITHOUT letters ("M"; "N"; etc.) stamped to the back of the crown are the blue/ white ENAMEL version.

One plain brass 1915 badge has had the raised letter ground off and then been stamped "N"
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File Type: jpg 02.jpg (23.1 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg 03.jpg (41.7 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg 04.jpg (23.7 KB, 23 views)
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  #21  
Old 19-02-17, 05:48 PM
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Default Collection of 'On War Service' badges

Hi dumdum

Many thanks for sharing some of your badges. I believe it is your ‘Q’ series Thomas Fattorni badge that has “Best” overstamped across the word “Fire”, which does seem to be something that is common in these, though the higher numbers, still by Fattorni, don’t have anything along the bottom. Mind, although I can’t make it out clearly, on yours “Best” seems to be stamped quite high up?

Interesting too to see your ‘N’ series badge with a stamped letter rather than the usual embossed kind, as I’ve not seen any like this before, or at least I haven’t noticed any! Regarding the 1915 enamelled version by Gaunt, I understand as well as the larger mark shown on yours there is a small mark which appears behind the crown.

You have some interesting examples of the 1916 badge, and the adapted fixing for the 1914 badge, which has lost its original buttonhole fixing, is also very unusual. All in all you’ve got a nice little collection there, though maybe examples from one or two series of the 1915 badge need yet? Can’t see if there’s any letter on the badge in the top right-hand corner of your picture of eight – is there a letter, or is it a reissued badge?

Best regards

Martin
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From Hindoostan, Gibraltar and Almanza; to Dunblane, Alma and Brandywine: Tigers, Steelbacks, Dutch Guards, Leather Hats, Nanny Goats and Red Feathers!
Interested in style and variation of post-1893 regimental cap badges for the Leicesters, the Northamptons, the Warwicks, the K.L.R., the R.W.F. and the D.C.L.I.

“Scutelliphiliacus in vestri insignia pergaudete”
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  #22  
Old 21-02-17, 01:23 AM
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Hi Martin

Thanks for your comments and I'll have a closer look at my badges for you. I was a little disappointed with the photos but maybe that's just my lack of skill with the camera!

I liked that "adapted" 1914 badge too and I think that it had had the half moon clip removed deliberately with the "frame" added to make it easier to wear. I picked it up off eBay quite cheaply as the frame had been "mangled" but was then fixed by yours truly.

Thanks for the compliment on the badges as it's been a slight obsession for me for a year or three (along with a lot of other areas...). I have a much larger grouping of those "private" issue badges which I could upload if you think that the interest is there.

Cheers
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  #23  
Old 21-02-17, 01:39 AM
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Hi Martin

Here's a closer view of that 1915 badge (hopefully the correct one!).

I'll check later on but I think that it has had the letter ground off and the number re-stamped (the half moon has been really deformed).

Has anyone thought to look at the "font" that was used for these badges? You can see that some were quite small sized and others were bigger with serifs.

As someone with a little knowledge of workshop practice, I suspect that some of these numbers were placed into a "holder" to mark the badges and some (the renumbered ones?) were clearly marked using individual hand held punches (poor alignment, uneven spacing, etc.)

Moreover, some of the badges must have been placed in a specially made matrix, otherwise the badge wold have been badly deformed.

Just placing it on a hard flat surface would have caused significant damage to the detail on the front, given the impact that would have been required to number it.
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  #24  
Old 22-02-17, 02:28 AM
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Hi Martin

Dug it out today and checked the number. There has been a raised letter ground off the back of the crown and the number J 30898 crudely punched into the half moon clip.

A previous number has been heavily ground off, thereby considerably thinning the clip.

Hope this helps in some small way!
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  #25  
Old 30-07-19, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Ticker' Riley View Post
Regarding the 1915 enamelled version by Gaunt, I understand as well as the larger mark shown on yours there is a small mark which appears behind the crown.
Just discovered this thread and checked my enamelled badge .
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File Type: jpg OWS Front.jpg (45.8 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg OWS Rear.jpg (43.4 KB, 25 views)
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  #26  
Old 30-07-19, 06:40 PM
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Hi Mike,

no problem that I can see, very clean example, almost unworn condition. I like it.

Cheers, Tim
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  #27  
Old 31-07-19, 01:00 AM
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Hi all

Yes there is the 1915 badge with the blue/ white enamel but I have one of the standard brass ones where the wording and three cannons are blue enamel-filled and the crown has red backing. It has also been gilded.

This is the example with the small size 5-digit number to the suit clip. From memory it has an "M" to the back of the crown.

Will also try to get a pic of a 1916 triangle badge with blue enamel to the lettering, 1916 date and the same red enamel to the crown. Probably someone wanting to appear more important...

Photo when the camera has charged!
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  #28  
Old 14-08-20, 12:54 PM
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After getting hold of the 1915 red enamelled "enrolment" badge I thought that would be enough .........then I spotted this little beauty !

‘P’ series = “D. G. Collins Newgate St London Warranted Fire Gilt”

Stuck in a last second 'sniping' bid and got it .........for £6.09 + postage (my max bid was £15.00) , it arrived today and am very happy with the badge.
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File Type: jpg OWS 1915 F.jpg (52.5 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg OWS 1915 R.jpg (53.1 KB, 7 views)
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  #29  
Old 14-08-20, 12:56 PM
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Very nice find indeed. Well done.
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