Two Dragons - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

#1 22-04-17, 06:12 PM

Good day folks

Here are two dragons. I thought that the top one might be a FS Cap badge for post 1920 1st Punjab Regt but it faces the wrong way I think. So is it just a collar?

What about the crowned Dragon? Not a collar as has the brooch fitting but is it a sweetheart brooch or a pagree badge and for what unit?

Many thanks in advance for your comments.

James

Roy · #2 22-04-17, 06:15 PM

Hi James,

I'm no expert but I think you may be correct about the top one being a collar. I know one thing for sure...I like it..

The bottom one rings a bell but can't quite place up, I'm sure someone will weight in soon.

Cheerio,

Roy

Wmr-RHB · #3 22-04-17, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesmilitaria

... post 1920 1st Punjab Regt

There was no 1st Punjab Regiment in 1920.

From 1922 there was the "large" 1st Punjab Regiment, but that had a different badge (with a small dragon at the bottom).

The 2nd Bn, 1st Punjab Regiment of 1922 was the former 66th Punjabis which wore a dragon like this. So that is a possibility.

Also the 74th Punjabis had a dragon as badge. In 1922 the became 4th Bn, 2nd Punjab Regiment (with had a ship as badge).

gurkharifles · #4 23-04-17, 08:54 AM

The Dragon with the crown is definitely the 66th Punjabis (WW1) - according to Nath's Sowars and Sepoys he shows two badges one facing left and one facing right - one is an officers side cap and the other is a collar - but he doesn't make it clear which is which. As for the one without the crown - I'd assume that it's a variant not illustrated - possibly earlier ? Tim

manchesters · #5 23-04-17, 01:07 PM

I often see the question posed, "is it a sweetheart or a pagri badge?" and quite often its easy to say what it isnt because of the rear brooch pin fittings.

Any badge you see with an applied oval or round backing to the fittings is NOT original to the badge if its a Military cap / collar badge. These fittings were commercially produced and supplied and were only fitted to military badges, sometime after their official use has ceased.

You will find these fittings on commercially produced non-military and sweetheart badges but not on Pagri badges.

Pagri badges with pins were manufactured with pins attached as part of their construction not as "after market" applied ovals etc.

Hope the explaination helps in the future.

regards

peter monahan · #6 24-04-17, 12:56 PM

I agree with Simon: the pin fittings are not original to the badge, so almost certainly not a pagri badge.

OTOH, it is such a lovely badge that I can see any number of people, perhaps with no regimental/military connection, wanting it as a brooch.

#7 30-04-17, 06:21 PM

I didn't know that about the brooch fitting so thanks for the explanation.

Yes both nice badges and both looking for homes.

Thanks for your comments everyone.

James

Voltigeur · #8 30-04-17, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gurkharifles

The Dragon with the crown is definitely the 66th Punjabis (WW1) - according to Nath's Sowars and Sepoys he shows two badges one facing left and one facing right - one is an officers side cap and the other is a collar - but he doesn't make it clear which is which. As for the one without the crown - I'd assume that it's a variant not illustrated - possibly earlier ? Tim

Hoping this help.
Jo
The dragon without the crown.
© IWM (HU 119835) Lieutenant Colonel G DL Chatterton DSO., 66th Punjabis,

Chacal · #9 30-04-17, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manchesters

I often see the question posed, "is it a sweetheart or a pagri badge?" and quite often its easy to say what it isnt because of the rear brooch pin fittings.

Any badge you see with an applied oval or round backing to the fittings is NOT original to the badge if its a Military cap / collar badge. These fittings were commercially produced and supplied and were only fitted to military badges, sometime after their official use has ceased.

You will find these fittings on commercially produced non-military and sweetheart badges but not on Pagri badges.

Pagri badges with pins were manufactured with pins attached as part of their construction not as "after market" applied ovals etc.

Hope the explaination helps in the future.

regards

Very useful information Simon, that explains the fitting on a Notts & Derby badge I have. With that in mind, as it was my grandfather's regiment I'll keep it now.

Thanks again

Graham