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  #1  
Old 01-08-17, 10:35 AM
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Default question on a RAF brassard

hi all
basically, what is this brassard? what was it for and what period?
thanks in advance
bc
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  #2  
Old 01-08-17, 01:37 PM
realownlee realownlee is offline
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Default BRASSARD

[ATTACH]175243CAPTAIN OF AIRCRAFT 2.jpg

From the book. 'LUFTWAFFE VS RAF. 1939-1945'. by MICK PRODGER. One of three volumes MUST HAVE'S FOR WW11 PERIOD RAF/ LUFTWAFFE COLLECTORS!
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  #3  
Old 01-08-17, 03:46 PM
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Interesting item, had never seen one before.

B.C. Is this in your collection?

Thanks
Jack
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  #4  
Old 01-08-17, 06:28 PM
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Default RAF Brassard - Aircraft Captain

From memory, the Brassard was worn by NCO Pilots of 'mixed' crews containing both NCO and commissioned officers to denote who the aircraft captain was. I cannot remember exactly when it was worn but almost certainly WWII.
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  #5  
Old 02-08-17, 04:37 AM
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thanks all for your replies.
been trying to find out more about it and what its worth with not much luck.
jack, I am negotiating on it at the moment. the seller rated it very highly but I had never seen it before.
it is exactly what he said it was.
he also told me that it was worn by an Australian. I guess that is certainly possible.
cheers
bc
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  #6  
Old 02-08-17, 04:50 AM
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hi all
was just sent a link to a discussion in 2002 regarding this armband.
here's the important bit
bc

received from Mr. Andrew Cormack at RAF Museum, Hendon:


Captain of Aircraft armbands were introduced by Air Ministry Order N 861 of 24th August 1944. No explanation of why this insignia was thought necessary is given, but it is assumed that it was to emphasize the status of the pilot of a large aircraft in relation to his crew. This emphasis was presumably thought to be required because, by this stage of the war, many pilots were NCOs whilst members of their crew could be Commissioned Officers

who therefore out-ranked them and theoretically could order them to act against their own inclinations. It had always been accepted that the pilot, whatever his rank, was the leader of the team and everyone usually understood that, but presumably there had been incidents in which the conduct of an NCO pilot had been questioned by his officer crew members and a reassertion of the pilot's primacy of status was thought necessary.


I have chatted to Veterans about this from time to time. Very few remember them and those who did said that their crew never used them; they all knew that 'Ginger', 'Chalky White' or 'Biffo' was the Captain of their aircraft and they did what he said. Rank had no significance once you were inside the aircraft. But obviously there must have been some incidents or else the Air Ministry would not have bothered to invent these things. I

have never, in 23 years at the Museum, seen a photo of anyone wearing one and I regret that I could not open up your pictures. We have several examples of these bands in the collection and none give the appearance of ever having been worn.


I hope these notes are of service.


Andrew Cormack FSA

Keeper of Medals, Uniforms and Visual Arts

Royal Air Force Museum
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  #7  
Old 02-08-17, 04:57 AM
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and this
http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/canada...farmband.shtml
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  #8  
Old 02-08-17, 06:53 AM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
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Wow, that's a very interesting piece. Good luck in getting it!
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  #9  
Old 02-08-17, 09:20 AM
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Interesting post on a rarely seen item. Thanks to all.

Jon
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  #10  
Old 02-08-17, 06:31 PM
blueboy684 blueboy684 is offline
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Default Not cheap

I can't remember how much I paid for mine but I DO know that it cost a lot!!!
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  #11  
Old 02-08-17, 06:56 PM
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Yes good luck in your efforts. A very nice piece.
Jack
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  #12  
Old 19-08-17, 03:17 AM
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hi all
it has arrived and i am very happy.
it would seem it was worn, although for a short time and probably very rarely by australian pilots so will join my RAAF collection.
any thoughts of what its worth? not that its for sale.
heres a couple more pics
bc
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File Type: jpg IMG_6207.jpg (76.8 KB, 9 views)
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  #13  
Old 19-08-17, 06:39 AM
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Image of one being worn, the image is captioned with the following:

"An RAF pilot wearing the new armband issued to captains of aircraft of Bomber and Coastal Command, 25th September 1944".
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  #14  
Old 19-08-17, 07:54 AM
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thanks woofy
great photo. now just need to find an aussie wearing one and i be happy
cheers
bc
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