Quote:
Originally Posted by sturgis
These are the post war allocated Regiments, BAOR.
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Hi Sturgis,
Your point is?
5 AGRA (AA) was a post war formation, converted in 1950 from 5 AA Bde, which had been raised in 1940 (Fredericks,
Lineage Book of British Land Forces, Vol 2, p965, p1048). Those units I listed all joined 5 AGRA (AA) in BAOR after 1950 (Watson and Rinaldi,
The British Army in Germany, 2005, pp32, 39).
5 AGRA 1943-46 and 5 AA Bde/5 AGRA (AA) 1940-58 were two totally different formations.
According to Hodges and Taylor (1994, p113) the serials allocated to the units of 5 AGRA in Italy in 1943 as provided by Marc (54Bty) were:
HQ 5 AGRA 375
57 Fd Regt 335
58 Fd Regt 336
121 Fd Regt 340
7 Med Regt 387
51 Med Regt 388
64 Med Regt 389
69 Med Regt 391
On return to UK and allocation to 2 Army the serials 1191-1199 were apparently allocated. These signs are stated as having a white horizontal bar at the bottom of the plate below the serial number denoting them as Army Troops, and the formation sign of 5 AGRA is stated to be that of 2 Army.
5 AA Bde was a unit of ADGB, being part of 9 AA Div based in Gloucester and Hereford with 85 and 88 HAA, 47 LAA and 37 SL Regts under command in Feb 1941. This allocation probably changed from time to time, it was originally 5 SL Bde in April 1940 (Routledge,
Anti-Aircraft Artillery 1914-55; Fredericks, Vol 2, p1048).
In June 1941 serial numbers were allocated to units of AA Comd in ADGB (WO Letter 57/Overseas/273 (SD 11) of 19 Jun 41, Appendix A) -
as the senior brigade in 9 AA Div in Feb 1941 the numbers allocated would have been 81 on RED background for HQ AA Bde, 55-58, 63, and 10-12, on RED background, in succession for the regiments of the brigade. The corners of the plates were to be painted khaki to present an elliptical background.
Now this may have changed over time, I'm afraid I don't have detailed ORBAT of AA Comd, and don't know where it may have been deployed later, or under whom. HQ 5 AA Bde was at Owestry in January 1946. In 1947 it was located in South Wales, Bristol and Kent, as a Regular Army formation, comprising 77 and 97 HAA Regts, 44 and 78 SL Regts. The latter two regts were converted to HAA a year later (Fredericks, Vol 2, p951, p958).
So, for the Second World War period -
1. the AGRA serials allocated in Italy were in the 300s;
2. the AGRA serials allocated in NW Europe for 21 AG were 173-194, plus 1190-1199. In addition a white formation distinguishing bar was painted on the plate in conjunction with the serial number for all non-divisional units (ACI 31/41, Vehicle Marking 1941; Hodges and Taylor, pp58, 72).
3. AA Comd serials were 1-100.
In 1947 the use of formation distinguishing bars was abolished and display of unit serial numbers was restricted to units deployed on operations (
Regulations for the Equipment of the Army 1947, Pamphlet No 5, Marking of Equipment, Section 4, Marking of Vehicles). The new Territorial Army AA units were not re-established until April 1947.
There was a formation sign on your vehicle that Mike Jackson has dated to 1947-48. The second formation sign has been established as belonging to 5 AGRA(AA) during the post-WW2 period, and is not known to have been officially in use (or in use at all) prior to this post-WW2 period.
Finally, the serial number 164 has been established as being a spare number in the block of serials allocated to AGRA(AA)/AA Bdes/Corps Artillery during the late 1950s and early 1960s. As 1959 was the first time that numbers for AGRA appeared in print for general knowledge it is quite possible that it had been in use in BAOR beforehand. It might even have been 150 AAFC Bty, who would have used Matadors to tow the Radar AA No 4 Mk 6 used by their AAOR troops.
So, based on the information above, and the contributions by the other members to this thread, the balance of probability is that your Matador is marked for a unit of 5 AGRA(AA) in Germany during the 1950s.
Keith