View Single Post
  #4  
Old 05-04-18, 02:03 PM
John Mulcahy's Avatar
John Mulcahy John Mulcahy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,291
Default

Sean,

What a fine collection you are putting together for the regiment.

I personally don’t see any conflict between this helmet and the question of whether IG officers wore bronzed pierced FSH stars in the pagri. FSHs fall into two general categories; a white version for ceremonial use, and a khaki drab version for service use. Your helmet, being white, is clearly intended for full dress/ceremonial use.

It is unofficial and I am going to speculate was produced by officers on a case by case basis by those officers who had a need (or desire) to use full dress on Foreign Service and wanted to further embellish the helmet from what the DRs authorized (which was white helmet, or khaki helmet with white cover, regimental bronzed badge and plume). Chains and spikes to be worn on ceremonial occasions when officers were not on duty with troops.

They would have been following the practice of the Grenadiers and Coldstream officers in using enameled badges in the FSH.

I suggest that the PM’s star was used as the “template for the star”. I have no doubt about its genuineness.

Helmets – Service Abroad, 1934
The 1934 Dress Regs. Para 685, Infantry, Foot Guards, Full Dress, states white Wolseley Helmet with white pagri is worn in full dress in place of the bearskin cap.

Para 721, Infantry, Foot Guards, service dress abroad states ‘Khaki Helmet, as in para 42.

Para 42 in turn provides instructions that the Brigade of Guards may wear regimental pagri badges and plumes (all attached)

Wearing of the FSH by The Irish Guards
There were only two deployments of formed bodies of the regiment during which the FSH was (theoretically) issued for wear. Constantinople 1922-23 and Palestine/Egypt 1936-38. All of my regimental and general histories are in storage at the moment and I have no access to them. I think I recall in the regiment magazine there is an image of the regiment in Constantinople in FSH. Images are few and few between.

It is well documented that the FSH was issued for Palestine /Egypt. Your dates appear to line up with this tour.

The badges worn in the FSH

1900 – 1935.
In common with many line regiments the forage cap stars were also sealed for the FSH in the early 1900s. However as recorded in WO/32/3245, The GOC London district noted in March that “this star [here he refers to the officers forage cap star] sealed in 1905 is considered to be too small and has not actually been worn”

1935.
It is well documented that bronzed solid and pierced stars were approved by the King and sealed for the IG. The documentation resides in WO/32/3245 (attached here is the article I wrote for the bulletin of the MHS regarding this star).

Further body of evidence that these were indeed issued and worn resides in the following.
a) IWM Catalogue numbers INS 12371 & INS 12372. A box of officers sealed pattern badges and buttons held by regimental HQs as ordered in regulations for the army. I have seen this box and the images I have shared with you. I will not post them on the open forum as I do not have permission to reproduce them in public.

INS 12372 is the card with the FSH stars and the online description is
A bronzed metal pagri badge for the Irish Guards, with pair of lugs on reverse, the badge is shaped around the emblem which comprises a circular centre piece featuring the shamrock on St Patrick's Cross encircled by inscription reading "QUIS SEPARABIT MDCCLXXXIII" all imposed on an eight-point star, the badge is one of two insignia mounted on white card entitled "IRISH GUARDS. Pagri Badge for Officers", the insignia are tied together with white cotton tape on reverse and sealed with green wax impressed with the stamp of the Ministry of Defence Army Officers Pattern. As you know the second badge on this card is annotated "Pagri Badge for Other Ranks" and is the solid centre version.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30063895


b) The 1934 DRs states that the badge is in bronze
c) Mahon in part 2 of his IG insignia article in the Rgt journal ( 1987) article, refers to the officers bronzed voided tropical helmet stars
d) An example of the khaki helmet, with the pierced bronzed star, exists in a private collection in the USA (image below). I'll PM you the name of the owner if you desire it

Thus I don’t think we should be in any doubt that the bronzed pierced stars were official and issued although I will admit I have no clear photographic evidence on hand.

I do not watch every sale but I can think of seeing 4 of these pierced bronze stars coming up for sale from time to time since approx. 2005 one of which I bought and is illustrated in the MHS article a 5th being the one in the pattern box at the IWM and a 6th being the one on the helmet attached below.

I think yours is an unofficial FSH for officers ceremonial use, why did Mahon & K&K miss it, I think because it is unofficial and would have been produced in small quantities, possibly in smaller numbers than the pierced bronzed star if we assume it was a discretionary item and/or not all officers had a need or use for ceremonial dress in Palestine. This is pure speculation on my behalf.

Any marks (hallmark or other) on the star to help further date, is it the same dimension as the PM star?

John

I know I have shared some of the attachments below privately but for the sake of public debate I thought I would post here.Apologies that 1934 DR PARA 731 has posted inverted
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1934 DR 42.jpg (87.1 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg 1934 DR 685.jpg (64.2 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg 1934 DR 734.jpg (55.3 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg IG 87 P2.jpg (97.3 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg IG OFFICERS FSH STAR.jpg (65.2 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg 1934 DR 721.jpg (45.3 KB, 13 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf The Irish Guards 1935 FSH Stars.pdf (607.6 KB, 18 views)

Last edited by John Mulcahy; 05-04-18 at 02:33 PM. Reason: added post script
Reply With Quote