Hertfordshire Regiment non-voided
 

Hi,

I wonder if any of you have an opinion on this badge. I am uncertain as to its authenticity and have had conflicting opinions on it.

Thanks in advance, Andy

I am sorry but I do not believe it to be a genuine cap badge. It is certainly not an economy badge as despite the solid centre the lugs are wrong. I have yet to see an unvoided Herts badge that is right and on the strength of this am doubtful as to their existance other than in minds of unscrupulous or ill informed dealers trying to spin a yarn.

I'm not a sure as Alan seems to be on these unvoided Herts badges, I've got this one that gives me a warm feeling, right colour braze and lug shape which are in a more convincing position, detailed, a good weight and a patina you just don't get on fakes? :confused:

Don't be sorry, it is what it is and there is no getting away from it. As I said, I am uncertain of it's authenticity and have had conflicting opinions of it. I have seen two non-voided versions, this and another with left to right lugs.

The sad thing is, as you say, the above mentioned dealers together with some reference books giving it the thumbs up doesn't really help.

Cheers, Andy

Hmmmm.... both badges look the same apart from the positioning of the lugs. My badge was cleaned a couple of month ago because when it came into my care it was in a very poor state. The lugs have been squashed down and still have a little filth around them.

Andy

Andy,
this is what I would call a "Keeper" i.e. keep it until you are certain it's wrong!

Andy

Three more images for your consideration (sorry about the picture quality, one struggles with these modern image thingies :o:o:D)

Andy

Andy,
I am going to be commital for once in my life. I have looked at your badge and suggest that it is either private purchase or made by/for someone. For the numbers of this badge around that are voided and with sliders and, with provenance I don't think there was a specific unvoided version. However, like you and Andy i would not be rid of it and put it in the 'to one side' and treat it like a sweetheart etc.
Yours
Matti

Herts Regt non-voided
 

Andy,

You know my feeling, but I'll express them publicly. I strongly suspect both this badge, and the non-void Beds Regt badge to be very suspect. I've yet to see one in a regimental collection, or find contemporary evidence that it was used, officially or otherwise. The Beds Regt non-void was being sold as a souvenir by the regimental museum over 20 years ago. Sadly, now even they have given it credibility by adding it to a display dummy.

Logically, why would this badge have been produced? There is no labour saving attached to not voiding it, to the contrary, it uses more metal!

Stephen.

Stephen,
thanks for joining in on this one! First can I remind people that the economy when speaking about 1916 all gilding metal badges refers to "Time to manufacture" and nothing whatsoever to saving metal.

Although I suspect Peter has this one in the wrong category (i.e E.I. Issued badges)

http://ptaylormilitaria.com/id6.html

I can see his reasoning for putting it there! His definately shows some signs of genuine use?

Andy

If it was economy it would have not been lugged but slidered. IMO it is an old fake. Not voided because the faker lacked the skill to void and lugged because they are cheaper and easier to put on than sliders.

Alan,
the good thing about the forum is that we can all voice our opinions and those that cannot do that in a semi-polite manner get banned :D lol..

I'm not sure about lugs being cheaper and easier to put on than sliders, there's certainly more time involved as there are often 2 lugs and 1 slider! Over to Dave MBA on this one!

As to lacking the skill to void, I disagree with you, in that getting the seeding right on the non-voided parts is far more difficult and IMO it's rather fine on these Herts badges!

I also do not believe that the solid Herts badge is an EI variation, however the rules are always fluid in this hobby of ours! I will agree 1,000,000% that Regular Infantry EIs are ALWAYS slidered (less RS) and of single piece construction. But this is a Territorial Unit and just like the Cavalry they often bend the rules! Just to illustrate my point, here's a Very Rare and 100% genuine 10th Hussars, All Gm badge, slidered but 2 part construction?

Andy

For my extremely limited input, I don't know why Alan thinks it is easier to fit loops than a slider.........for anyone interested, fitting loops can be a pain in the aris, please send me badges to be re-slidered.......

I would however, also agree that the looped Herts badge in Peter's list, although looking quite nice, can not be an economy issue for reasons already stated ??

That's me done.

Dave.

Hertfordshire Regt non-void
 

All EI were produced for Ordnance, to a sealed pattern. It was prior to this that the TAA had control over manufacture and supply of insignia for their units, hence the flexibility. There is no reference I found to Ordnance approving an EI for the Herts Regt. Most EI badges were based upon bi-metal badges, so I can still see no reason for an EI version having been produced for the Herts Regt.

Additionally, I think the wide antlered version is the later pattern, more frequent in later years.

Stephen.

I still haven't seen any solid Herts badges I like, the 3 shown in this thread have got Harts with deformed front legs & the 2 I have look like Scooby Doo with antlers!! I've attached a few different pics for comparisons, showing various antler positions too. So many variations but then this badge was worn for a long time!!
Wilf.