The Corps of Army Schoolmasters.
 

Can anyone tell me what cap badge was worn by the Corps of Army Schoolmasters during the Great War please?.

I don't know whether this thread will be of any help:


http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ad.php?t=62445

Thanks Leigh, I must have missed that thread. The reason I asked is due to a recent thread started by the Rt. Hon. Jelly Terror Q.S. on the GvR cypher and crown badges. I mentioned the version of the badge with a wreath surrounding the cypher and wondered who actually wore that version. I know it is believed to be MPSC and at least one reference book has it as such but I've never seen any images of it being worn at all. Having not seen any Great War images of the Corps of Army Schoolmasters either, I wondered if it could possibly have been worn by them.

I think I have a cWWI group photo (possibly of Regimental or Garrison Police with various cap badges being worn) with one man wearing the MPSC badge. I'll seek it out.

I have only these two images to hand at the moment, not one of the group.

Thanks again Leigh. Do you know for certain that he is MPSC?, I mean no disrespect to the man but he looks too scruffy to be a Provost Staff disciplinarian in my opinion. There is no doubt about the badge being the one attributed to the MPSC though, but I've never been convinced that it was worn by them.

Afraid I don't, I'll find and scan the group shown in the original photo. I may be confusing the RP armband wearing group with an unconnected photo, but as I recall this Sgt is the central figure in a group of men who are wearing different cap badges - which will probably not help decide the provost / schoolmaster question.

Much appreciated.

Well, that took a while to find - the group consists of the MPSC/RDC or otherwise sergeant, an Essex Regt sergeant, a Suffolk Regt corporal and six East Surrey Regt men.

Two of the men wear overseas service chevrons, (the Essex Regt sgt a red & two blues by the look of it and an East Surrey private three blues).

The Essex sgt wears a 14/15 Star, BWM & VM ribbons, one of the East Surreys BWM & VM and another East Surrey a BWM ribbon.

The MPSC/RDC sgt appears to be wearing a medal ribbon of a single colour - I'm wondering if it's a LSGC maroon ribbon or Volunteer LSGC green ribbon?

There are no details of subjects or the photographer written or printed on the card.

Leigh, the fact that the MPSC/RDC man looks to be much older than the others but has no WW1 medal ribbons and, as you point out, appears to be wearing the LSGC medal ribbon, clearly points to home service/peacetime service only. His rather shambolic appearance is, I would say, typical of your average schoolteacher type, from my memory of schooldays at least. Great photo all the same.

I was under the impression the they were WOs but this article from Hansard shows that they were WOs after 8 years of service.

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War, in view of the facts that, on the promulgation of the warrant of 1st July, 1881, the rank of warrant officer was granted to all bandmasters then serving, but to those schoolmasters only who had served for 12 years before that date, although prior to the warrant in question all Army schoolmasters were senior in rank to bandmasters; that the rank of warrant officer is now granted to all bandmasters on appointment, but to schoolmasters only after eight, years' service;

If that's an LS medal then he really should be a WO.

Afternote: According to the GWF discussions the Assistant Schoolmasters were Sgts.

This is an interesting photo of a WO Army Schoolmaster's grave in 1920 which must be within1-2 years of your photo. The GV Cypher badge is quite clear. There is occasionally some artistic licence with gravestones but even so it does suggest the GV cypher was the Corps badge.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/10721

This IWM record shows that the CWGC used the same cap badge for:

CORPS ARMY SCHOOL MASTERS,
ROYAL DEFENCE CORPS,
MILITARY PROVOST STAFF CORPS,
ROYAL ENGINEERS SERVICES

Which does rather suggest that they all wore the same GV cypher badge.

Thanks Alan, that's very interesting. I was clearly barking up the wrong tree.:)

Also Norfolk Yeomanry of course and also used for Barrack Wardens graves as well.

I filed the photo as MPSC as that was the only badge identification I'd come across (Gaylor? K&K?), but I can't offer any ref. other than that.
Definitely not a spit and polish group, the Essex sergeant has a tunic button undone and one of the East Surrey's has 1" turn ups on his tunic sleeves.
Provo' or school master, I'm not sure I'd want to upset that gentleman though........