RMP SIB LOZENGE
 

Attachment 49985

Attachment 49986

For potential interest, I attach scanned images of the latest version of the Special Investigation Branch (SIB) 'lozenge', which is worn above the MP appointment patch (erroneously described as a 'Tactical Recognition Flash', which it is not and was only calssified as such in order that RMP personnel could receive the new patches inetnded for wear with the new Combat 95 dress was introduced at public expense).

This version is machine stitched and sealed with a palstic-type glue sealant on the reverse. Measuring 42mm x 26 mm, it does not fur-up or unravel as easily as the earlier versions did.

I have tried to open the 2 attachments but is states "INVALID ATTACHMENT" :confused:

Attachment 50010

Attachment 50011

Try this.

SIB
 

Here are 3 versions I have - is the desert subdued version in use?

Tim

Tim,

I believe that the subdued version is out in use with desert combats, but it is not endorsed officially for wear and the previous Provost Marshal (Army) refused to endorse any subdued versions of the MP 'TRF' (sic), SIB lozenge or the myriad versions of RMP rank slides that are worn (other than the official black on green and the scarlet on stone rank slides) even for wear on operations. The SIB lozenge has only been endorsed by the AGC Dress Committee (with I think a nod from the Army Dress Committee) and SIB personnel must buy the badges at their own expense. With the issue of Mutli-Terrain Pattern (MTP) combat clothing, strict rules have been dictated as to what can be placed on the velcro square on the jacket and I do not believe that the SIB lozenge is authorised for wear on MTP, but I know that the black on red MP TRF is. No doubt an enterprising buisness will produce a MTP SIB badge in due course.

Thank you for that detail. I have some other variants of the SIB lozenge and the 'MP TRF' and will post next week.

Tim

Why and when was the SIB lozenge shaped badge introduced?

I understood that it was introduced for wear only in the Balkans because under the conditions of that theatre, civilian clothes were not allowed to be worn on duty by British Service personnel. The badge was used to identify members of the SIB so as not to confuse them with General Duty RMP personnel.

If the badge is mandatory and is now in universal use and the SIB are required to wear them, why must they pay for them?

In former times, in battle dress, members of the SIB could only be identified in uniform because they did not wear the RMP shoulder titles. Later, in the 1960s and onwards the SIB mainly operated in civilian clothes apart from when it was deemed necessary for them to wear No 2 Dress or Combat dress.

A third and last question, is the armlet MP black on red still in use, if so in what form of dress is it used? Answers as and when please. Thank you.

ORISKANY.

In former times, in battle dress, members of the SIB could only be identified in uniform because they did not wear the RMP shoulder titles.

What strange logic. Do not wear shoulder titles and therefore positively identify oneself as a member of SIB? Did the same logic apply to their RMP cap badges, buttons etc? It must make sense to somebody.

Whatever happened to the small brooch-like badge in the design of a sprig of foliage that SIB used to wear in plain clothes?

I believe the "sprig of foliage" brooch-like badge worn in civilian clothes, and the same device on a tie, represented the "Branch" (Special Investigation Branch).

Tim

MP TRF
 

Another example of the SIB lozenge in subdued black on olive green with the MP TRF plus a few more MP TRFs

Tim

Tim,

Thank you.

The 'sprig of foliage' brooch is in fact the emblem of the Special Investigation Branch (SIB), Royal Military Police which was adoped in the 1970s. It features 19 twigs on a branch which symbolises the first 19 founder members of the SIB. These first members were detectives, all volunteers, from the Metropolitan Police.

I am still looking for information on the SIB lozenge shaped badge.

MW

Dear all,

As a former Commanding Officer SIB (UK) RMP and the staff officer responsible for the AGC Dress Committee authorsiation for the wearing of the lozenge, I may be able to add value to the debate and at the weekend I will dig out all of the original material so that I can give evidence based chapter and verse.

As to other related matters:

The SIB 'Branch' lapel pin is still proudly worn, and it is replicated on various ties - in fact I am wearing one now as I type. As mentioned by others, the Branch pin does indeed represent the orignial 19 Branch members. It was actually 20, but the 20th individual (6686548 Sgt George Baker) did not attend the short military training course at Mytchett before they deployed to France in 1940, so the pin was made with '19' limbs to represent those who attended the training.

The RMP have three armlets still in use, which are worn mainly in No1 and No2 (now FAD) Dress:

Black MP on Red for all ranks up to and including Lt Col;
Black PM on Red for Lt Cols holding Divisional PM appointments;
Gold PM on a Red and Blue armlet worn by the PM(A) (the Brigadier) and his four Deputy PMs who are all Colonels

Robins Hodges gives details as to the SIB Lozenge's antecedence in his book (with acknowledgments to me) and I think he also depicts some of (if not all of) the current MP and PM armlets too.

I will revert to you all at the weekend.

Regards,

SIB LOZENGE BADGE
 

Thank you for that, I for one look forward to the next instalment.:)

MW

At that time, mid 1950s, members of the Special Investigation Branch held the rank of Sergeant and above. They wore the same uniforms including cap badge and cap buttons as the Provost Branch except for the following:

1. No white equipment. Green blancoed Waist belt and anklets.
2. No MP Armlet.
3. No scarlet cap cover.
3. No black on red RMP titles.

Perhaps other Forum members can recall this and confirm.

Here is an image of a Special Investigations Branch Sergeant at work (apologies for the poor quality of the image):

SIB Lozenge
 

The SIB Employment Badge seems to have first appeared during the Bosnia Campaign (Op PALATINE) in 1998/99. The need for an identifier for SIB personnel arose from the confusion at crime scenes where SIB personnel could not be easily differentiated from General Police Duties (GPD) personnel. But as with most things it then took a number of attempts to get the badge authorised for wear – not helped by the SIB’s failure to convince its own Chain of Command of the requirement & an apparent unwillingness to ‘press to test’ in terms of the staffing action required.

By Op TELIC 1, the SIB & its sponsor HQ Provost Marshal (Army) (HQPM(A)), had attempted to get the lozenge shaped employment badge authorised for wear, but each attempt failed to convince the Adjutant General's Corps (AGC) Dress Committee, without whose endorsement an application could not be submitted to the Army Dress Committee. In the summer of 2004, another attempt was made by HQ PM(A) & this time it was based on current operational experience from Iraq and on the clear operational need to differentiate SIB personnnel from GPD personnel at scenes of crime and other critical incidents, where with body-armour et al everyone looks the same and only the MP 'TRF' (sic) to identify Service Police personnel. This time, with the clear support of the then AGC Regimental Colonel (Col Brown ADC) the application was approved in 2004, & the wearing of the SIB lozenge was incorporated into AGC Dress Regs (vide para 02.008: Employment Badges. The only employment badges authorised for wear are RMP and SIB).

However, the Army Dress Committee, while recognising the requirement, would not authorise the badge to be provided at public expense & this was due to: the small numbers required and the resultant unit costs; the fact that the MP ‘appointment’ employment is still worn as an armlet (and also as a TRF so-called on Combat 95 clothing) meant that with a SIB Employment Badge as well, a relatively small part of the Army would have lots of badges at not an insignificant cost to the public purse. HQ PM(A) had a clear choice – continue to see the MP appointments paid for at public expense or the SIB lozenge, or see the armlet removed from use.
An initial issue was paid for from SIB Unit Non-Public PRI Funds). Robin Hodges covers the history of the SIB lozenge in his book.