Royal Naval Division Army Insignia
 

Might seem odd that I'm posting this here but the RND uniform did bear more of a resemblance to infantry than navy. I am interested in what types of army insignia were worn by the ratings of the Royal Naval Division. I do know already that standard army rank was worn on the right sleeve, naval on the left in blue thread on khaki backing e.g. a Petty Officer had a PO's rating badge on his left sleeve and Sergeant's stripes on his right.

Was army trade insignia worn where appropriate? Were good conduct stripes worn as inverted rank chevrons on the cuff, army style or coloured chevrons under the rating badge naval style?

If anyone can suggest any references I should look up on the wider topic of RND insignia I'd be extremely grateful!

RN men in the RND were first and foremost RN men and so I very much doubt if GC chevrons were worn army style. The RN badge system was much more highly regarded and prestigious than the army one, with stricter criteria .... a totally different system.
I can't see a three-badge Leading Seaman NOT wearing his badges in RN fashion on his RN side.
Photos on this one would be much appreciated, people!

HMS-T,

Excellent illustrated article in Crown Imperial magazine of Autumn 1999 if you can get hold of a copy.

The article is called "Sailors in Khaki:Royal Naval Division Uniforms and Insignia 1914-18" by Martin Brayley.

P.B.

Interesting subject. I was on the Great War Forum yesterday and saw a photo of a RND chap with a hook on his left arm and a lance corporal's stripe on the right. No GCB but then it wouldn't be a given that he'd yet earned one.

I have a feeling, and no more than that - no claims, that RND would not have worn GCBs, the uniform would start to get a bit cluttered and colorful.

I find that uniform information on the RND is scarce and photographs scarcer. I would love to know for instance why the so called RND CPO's cap badge is modelled on a PO's badge.

As you say but then what would the chevrons look like? As far as I know RND wore Naval rank in blue thread on a khaki background.

Any idea on the number of that issue P.B.? If you have it do you think you could oblige me with a scan of the article as browsing online has not turned up many old issues for sale excepting in bulk sales.

HMS-T,

If you send me a PM with your E mail address I will scan the article and send it to you.

P.B.

Some notes with illustrations on RND insignia in an article entitled "Landlocked Sailors" in Formation Sign 237 Jan-March 2010.

P.B.

Thanks very much for all the forthcoming assistance, will send a message now, thanks!

Navy rank was Red on khaki, though some wosted on khaki are seen & gold on black rank worn on kahki ,early on, it seems.
Bronze PO's badge,'borrowed' from RNAS & worn for a short time in 1916 by RND NCO's

Cheers !
Steve

PS:I have never seen GC stripes worn, only overseas service stripes, on lower RH sleeve.
Poss. signaller's coloured crossed flags ,may have been worn,as these are found on naval style khaki backgrounds,occasionally.

Hi there , good evening ,
the article ` land locked sailors` is very good also about a million years ago the magazine ` Military Ilustrated` did quite an indepth feature on the R.N.D , some where ...... i do have it ,
i was give a load of copies of many of the great articles they did ( they did a cracking one on the tank corps insignia )

will try ? ?and find it for you , regards ,Michael.

Hi,
A couple of cloth RND badges.

If the Signaler’s coloured crossed flags are the blue / white type then they are Royal Marine issue. Attached a photo of RM Signaler ‘s badge. But that’s not to say that RN personnel did not use the RM badge.

Regards

Danny

Attachment 36821 Attachment 36822

Danny, that's a nice POs rate badge, I like the construction for a couple of reasons.

I'm interested in the fact that the badge is actually red on khaki rather than blue on khaki any info?

As to the branch badges I don't know of any RN badges that were multi coloured apart from MAs. I'm thinking working dress here rather than "tiddly suit badges", and then it was usually confined to red within the crown.

Ashamed to say even with quite a few years in the RN my knowledge of the badges is woefully incomplete.

I have a question. Did the RNVR - Royal Naval Division ever wear the rectangular blue title with red worsted letters?

Hi

Regarding Jim's question on the "Petty Officer's" cap badge. The badge is in fact a Chief Petty Officer's badge. PO's wore the square collar uniform, with cap tally, until 1920, unless they were of the non-seaman specialisation, when they would have worn the red cap badge with crown & anchor.

In 1920 the CPO's cap badge was redesigned with laurel leaves, thereafter confirmed PO's wore the cap badge previously worn by CPO's (Without the laurel leaves).

PO's & LH's badges at the attachment.

hi

Another thought on why you do not see RND ratings with good conduct badges. Apart from the Reservists and the 2000 Royal Navy Stokers in the original uptake. All were new recruits. Some of the "old hands" would have been interned in Holland after Antwerp, been killed at Gallipoli, or would have gone back to sea after Gallipoli and before the Western Front offensive. What was basically left were new recruits.

Photographs at Crystal Palace show quite a few "no badge" Leading Hands and Petty Officers, It is, therefore, possible that the ratings would not have had the time in to gain a good conduct badge before the RND was disbanded.

John