White metal RN buttons
 

I'm sure this topic has been discussed elsewhere on the site recently but I can't find it, so please excuse me for raising it again.

I have some RN ratings buttons in my collection which apart from being in white metal are absolutely standard ratings buttons - plain rim, lined background, crown over anchor. I have examples with both King's and Queen's crowns. I even have 'silver' anodised examples of the Queen's crown buttons.

As I say apart from their colour they are perfectly normal ratings buttons. They are NOT Admiralty Constabulary buttons. Does anyone know who used and wore them? I'm sure I read somewhere that they had something to do with QARNNS but I can't find that reference again either!

Any help would be appreciated.

Pete

The Admiralty Police (not Constabulary), Overseas detachments wore WM QC insignia. This included standard Admiralty QC buttons in WM. Worth bearing that in mind.

Dave.

White metal RN buttons
 

Hi Dave

It was the Admiralty Constabulary (1949-71) in the UK. The Admiralty Police were in the Overseas Dockyards. So did the police in oversea dockyards wear different buttons from the buttons worn by the dockyard police in the UK who wore a plain smooth white metal button with a raised crown and anchor? They are very different from the white metal 'ratings-style' buttons I'm trying to find out about. What exactly do you mean by 'standard Admiralty QC buttons in WM'? Do you mean ratings-style?

Pete

The naval forces of the state of Victoria wore plain QVC WM buttons before 1901. The buttons appear to be castings of base metal rather than high quality die-struck. I will try to find some pix in my file.

White metal RN buttons
 

Thanks Kingsley!

I've always had a particular interest in the colonial and imperial naval forces - a vastly under-researched field. So very keen to see your button image. I have some items from the naval forces of Victoria in my own collection including a white metal VQC officers belt plate and Midshipman's VQC plate for a dirk belt.

Pete

Any chance of some photos?
Thanks, cheers,
Alex

White metal RN buttons
 

Hi Alex

I'll take some pictures and put some up over the next day or so.

In the meantime, anyone know the answer to my original question?

Pete

Pete,
Sorry can't supply the Victorian QVC WM button pix and don't have access to them at the moment. I actually have a spare pair of them, two sizes, which both came from a large oldtime military collection in Victoria around 30 years ago. I think I also have a spare mint condition large gilt NSWNB button.
The AWM website has some interesting colonial navy cloth items and cap badges. I have a couple of standard RN officer QVC cap badges (pre 1891 and 1891-1901) which were worn by Australian naval forces.
In buttons, I have HMCN and HMQN and some standard gilt RN QVC ones made by three different Australian makers which I think have been discussed on the Forum before.
No one can tell me if a standard post 1901 KC RN button exists with an Australian maker.
As you say, under researched.

White metal RN buttons
 

Thanks for trying Kingsley. I've sent you a PM.

Pete

My backmark list for such buttons has one: Stokes & Sons

The button is listed as "in collection", but it does not yet have a tray number.
I did a quick search and I did not find it.

I have asked this question on the Forum before but no one has apparently actually seen a KING'S crown RN button with an Australian maker mark. Does it exist?
I have a QVC by Stokes, another by Bowley (both Melbourne) and David Jones Sydney.

White metal RN buttons
 

As promised here are the images of my belt buckles for members of the Victorian Naval Forces.

Officers of the Victorian Naval Forces wore 'silver' buttons, belt buckles, etc. instead of the 'gold' insignia worn by the Royal Navy. These buckles are actually made of silver-plated bronze.

Image 01:-
The top (smaller) buckle is the buckle worn by Midshipmen on their Dirk Belts between 1856 and 1891. It has the lined background used prior to 1891.
The lower (larger) buckle is the buckle worn on both the Full Dress and Undress Sword Belt by all officers of the rank of Commodore Second Class and below. Again it is pre-1891 issue as it has the lined background.

Image 02:-
This image shows the back of the above buckles.

Image 03:-
A close-up of the buckle worn by officers of the rank of Commodore Second Class and below.

Image 04:-
A close-up of the buckle worn by Midshipmen.

Pete

Thanks for showing them.

My pleasure Alex. I enjoy showing off the items in my collection - especially to like-minded people who appreciate them!

Pete

Pete, did you get my reply to your PM?
Do you have John Perryman's "Kit Muster" book? Certainly the best reference we have on RAN insignia.
Kingsley