RASC KC Bullion Badge
 

Hiya guys

Your help is needed here please, I'm looking at an RASC Officers bullion cap badge (LIKE KK2117) !!!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Royal-Army-Ser...item2a11a7c533

KK2117 says In Gilded Metal !! "Crown raised, leaving a space between the base of the crown and the top of the Garter". Sealed 12th Feb 1949.

Is this a genuine Cap/Beret Badge from GviR period ???
(All Officers badge centres are "RED", why is this one "Yellow")
The Crown is also touching the Garter in this Bullion Badge.

The measurments make this a beret badge, 40mm x 38mm
(When did Officers start wearing berets, with bullion badges) ???

Could this be a Blazer Badge of sorts ???

I want to give it a miss, but could it be a geniune badge, it looks like a piece of "MUSH" to me, even the RASC scroll is crap, but I'm new at this, and need some help. :(:(:(

Would you buy it ???
Cheers Fatboy Ken

Hi Ken

I quite like it. The size is about right, detail as good as you can get with metal thread of this size and the raggedy edge where it has been stitched onto a beret and then removed.

I guess this is the type worn during WW2. Here is a picture of Lt Col M.St.John Packe of the 1st Airborne RASC with a badge that could be similar.

Rob.

The badge looks pretty good to me. It will be late in the period, probably post war but there is no reason why a bullion beret badge should not have been worn at that time. Don't expect precision construction of components in bullion as you might expect in a die struck or even die cast metal badge - the technique of making something 40mm x 38mm in wire is imprecise by its very nature. If you are enthusiastic about ASC/RASC/RCT then I should grab it as I doubt you will see another genuine one for a very long time. There is always a fear that a good one will be picked up by a faker and reproduced from its detail - only to flood the market with copies. Regards. David

RASC
 

KEN, I would go for it, I would not have e mailed it to you otherwise and it is from a good seller,robinmcg11, who I have brought from with no problems and he has 100% feedback. Go on treat yourself mate:)

I do not know this seller personally only through e bay buying.

Thanks guys :) that's fantastic

I've been unable to find a single reference to bullion beret badges, apart from those worn by the RCT, when I should also be looking for photographs !!

What a hobby :o

Thanks Jerry, I've never doubted your expertise in this field, and was looking for confirmation in books n such, but to no avail. :confused:

Also thank you to CftD, Rob and Mike for the PM.

Now all I have to do is win it !! LOL
(Nothing worst than advertising the fact, ....... is there ??)

Cheers FBK

Bullion beret badges
 

The following might be of interest to this and other cap badge enquiries.

In the National Archives file WO32/17868 is a War Office letter dated 4/10/49 addressed to Colonels Commandant and Colonels of Regiments and Corps concerning Regimental Badges and Buttons which states (a little paraphrased);
“Policy as regards cap badges has been; a cap badge of the same design and size should be worn on all headdresses. These to be of the dress type ie gold or silver plated. Bronze cap badges were to be regarded as obsolescent. In the case of the beret an embroidered badge of the same design and size as the metal badge referred to above might be worn if desired. The reintroduction of the khaki SD cap (ACI427/1949) for wear by officers with BD and tropical dress has made it necessary to review the present position. At the same time consideration has been given to the probability of the introduction of the coloured forage cap to be worn with non-ceremonial and ceremonial No 1 dress in place of the coloured beret.

As a result of this review it has been decided that the following rules should in future apply to officers' cap badges: On both the coloured forage cap with peak and khaki SD cap with peak badges should be of the same size and design, the finish to be gilt silver plate etc, although the badge on the SD cap may be bronzed if desired. If a bronze cap badge is adopted for SD cap then collar badges on SD must also be bronze

On the beret the design should be as for caps above, the finish to be gilt, silver plate or embroidered. The beret badge should be of the same size as that of the forage or SD but may be reduced in size. A collar badge which is of a different design will not be worn in the beret.

It is also important to remember that officers bought their own badges which were in the case of embroidered badges probably all hand made so there is likely to be variation in their manufacture.

Robin has sold quite a few embroidered badges all of which were good.

Happy bidding

Postwarden

Wow !!!
That was excellent postwarden, thankyou
(I think i'll make notes from now on) :o
FBK

Two things. 1) All bullion GviR RASC badges I've seen so far had a heraldically correct red background behind the cypher, this one's yellow. Why?
2) All WWII Airborne bullion RASC badges, as worn by Major Packe, I've seen so far have a maroon backing, this one's black or dark blue, which suggests a non Airborne, possibly post War, vintage.
Remember that the maroon beret was only the second beret worn by the British Army (the first one was of course the black tankers beret). As the maroon beret was the first beret worn by quite a few corps and regiments, and introduced during wartime when winning the war was more important than dress regulations, quite a few different badges or badge backings were worn than regulated for other head-dresses. In case of Airborne RASC officers, both a bullion cap badge sized badge and the OR's collar was worn on the beret.

Rgds,

Thomas.

Thomas - Why the presumption that this badge was worn by airborne RASC ? There would be many non-airborne RASC officers in the post war period, through to Korea and 1952 when KC would cease (or so we imagine). I can see no argument against the idea that this is a post war (1945-1952) officers' pattern bullion beret badge worn on a blue beret. David

RASC
 

Agreed. In the later period from 1959 - the 1970s I can't recall seeing any RASC/RCT officer wearing a metal Corps badge on a beret.

My second point was in reference to Rob Miller's post, and makes the case for it not being an Airborne badge. The black/dark blue background would suggest post-War to 1953 wear, when the QC came into use.
I think the bullion RASC officers badge was first worn on the Coloured Field Service Cap, and initially adapted for the beret by Airborne officers.

Regards,

Thomas.

I am fairly certain that this is a real one, possibly WW2 for the coloured side cap but maybe later. As the original question was whether this was a real GVIR period badge then I would say yes
Lee

Hi Thomas

I didn't actually say I thought it was an "Airborne" badge, the picture was simply to demonstrate that bullion badges were worn during the war.

Also wouldn't there have been many more RASC Officers during the war years than in the period 1946-1952 to wear badges?

It's at £49.00 =-((
If i do, i'll not be buying a round of teas Sunday lads. LOL
Thanks to you all by the way, very informative, and knowledge abounding from all over guys. Cheers FBK

I am sure we will have a whip round and buy you a tea between you both.:D ha ha and a sniff of a bacon buttie:p