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-   -   Royal Navy Commando, Beach Signals and other anomalies (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311)

tynesideirish 13-01-08 08:50 PM

Royal Navy Commando, Beach Signals and other anomalies
 
In the Rarest Badge thread I posted 2 unrelated but very rare Special Forces badges. http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...read.php?t=300 These two badges seemed to cause such a stir that unfortunately the thread seemed hijacked with off topic postings concerning related topics to my 2 badges.

The 1st was the Beach Signals I said: Beach Signals can't get much rarer than this.True statement. Try buying one.
The 2nd I described as thus:The Beach Formation Patch isn't much easier to find. This is true. I was going to write a little blurb on this badge but before I got onto it, it was correctly ID'd by member '54BTY' as The 22nd Beach Brigade.


Firstly. I'm no expert but my speciality's as such are WWl - Present Irish Regiments and British Special Forces including Airborne & Commando forces. So I usually know what I'm talking about if I do post on one of these subjects.

Secondly I never once said these 2 badges where related least of all worn together. Nor did I ever say that they where BOTH involved in the Normandy Landings.

In response to a query I posted a little bit about the Royal Navy Commando The coverall unit in which the Beach Signals shoulder title was worn. The exact sub unit would take some fishing by me as I have a note of the original WWll owner / wearer.

The 22nd Beach Brigade, Combined Operations. Formed in the Summer of 1945 at Dalmally for training on the shores of Louch Fyne, Inverary,
Argyll-shire, for the intended Invasion of the Japanese Mainland, but the Force was stood down when the usa dropped the atom bombs on the Two Japanese Cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We know of at least one unit under command of 22nd Beach Brigade because of a casualty. He was:Nugent, J, S/Sgt, 13119435, 101 Royal Pioneer Beach Assault Group, 22 Beach Brigade.

Hope that clears things up and any further discussion can be on this thread.
Mike

tynesideirish 13-01-08 09:06 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Regarding WWll Royal Navy Commando here's a couple of pics for you:
1. Embroidered over printed RNC Combined Operations Arm badge.
2. This is Telegraphist H .Ware. Photo taken July 1944 whilst serving with No.16 Royal Navy beach signals section.
3. Printed RNC CO Arm Badge

Bill A 13-01-08 11:00 PM

Mike, As my apologies for taking the Rare Items off topic. It was not my intention, as I said in my last post on that thread.
I am not sure, but I believe there is some misunderstanding here. I have no doubt that the patches are rare. I was enquiring about the nature of these units, as they are seldom discussed, or even known about over here. I have done some research on the 3rd CID Beach Groups, and knew that there were Beach Commandos in the RCN, but was unaware how they fit together in the scheme of things. In the Canadian experience, there were no Canadian manned Beach Groups that were ever operational (there appears to have been one organized and disbanded). The 3rd CID Juno Beach Group was all British units. My postings were an attempt to put an understanding of these units together, and connect the patch to these groups if indeed such was the case. Any assumptions made in the subsequent postings were based upon my misunderstandings.

The images of the W Commando on LAC all illlustate what appears to be the Combined Ops patch in red on navy. From the notes on LAC, it appears that W Commando did not go to France until July of 1944.

To conclude, from what I now understand, the patch illustrated was only worn by 22 Beach Brigade? And the only formation patch worn by the 4th, 7th, and 8th Beach Groups was the Beach Groups fouled anchor on the 3 CID patch?

tynesideirish 14-01-08 07:23 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Bill, Yes the patch illustrated for 22 Beach Brigade was only worn by that unit.

RCN Beach Commando 'W Commando' stormed ashore on 'Mike Beach Sector' Juno D-Day along with the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division. They are classed as support troops and in most cases as Royal Marine Commandos. Only the most detailed of Operational text books lists them. They wear the Round Combined Operations patch See photo 1. Actual photo :Canada_JunoBeach_1_RCNCOMMANDO. below.

However the 7th Beach Group (Flag from Juno at photo 2. below.) also at Juno 'Mike Red' and 'Mike Green"consisted of the 8th Liverpool Irish not a Canadian amongst them. (The 5th Liverpool Rifles where also the 5th Beach Group on Sword) Their insignia has already been discussed here: http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ight=liverpool

Some Canadian Commandos:
Photo 3 BD Jacket W Commando.
Photo 4 Harold Smith RCN Commando.
Photo 5 Canadian Army in England 1942-43. Sgt L G (Les) Ellis DCM, front left, was an instructor at the 2nd Division Sniper School. Sgt Ellis was at the time with the Royal Regiment of Canada. The CO patch is clearly visible on his left arm. There is a 2nd CO patch (just visible) on the left arm of the servicemen in the back row 3rd from the left.

Peter Brydon 16-01-08 09:02 AM

Question
 
Tyneside,
Could you please give some futher details of the most interesting flag which has the white horse of hanover on it .

Thanks

Peter

P.S. as a matter of interest there was a letter in "The Military Chest" of July/August 1984 from a former member of the 8th Irish Bn,Kings Liverpools which says they wore the Combined Operations div sign during their training presumably before adopting the Beach Group sign superimposed on the 3rd Canadian Div patch.

P.P.S. Many many apologies have read post again and I see that you do in fact refer to the flag but most interesting that it has the Kings badge on it and not the badge of the Liverpool Irish ( 8th Bn Kings Liverpools )

tynesideirish 16-01-08 07:28 PM

Peter, I thought if anyone can solve the conundrum of the Kings badge on the 7th Beach Group HQ flag it would have been you.

Peter Brydon 16-01-08 08:16 PM

Flag
 
Tyneside,
A most intersting item. Is it yours ?

The only thing I can think of is ,other than the caubeen and cap badge ( and one very rare black on khaki slip on title LIVERPOOL/KINGS/IRISH ) all the rest of the insignia worn by the Liverpool Irish in WW2 was as worn the other Kings Battalions including officers collars, white on red cloth titles, and I believe buttons.

The Kings badge would have been easier to reproduce in outline on a flag rather than the Lpool Irish badge,but like the Beach group badge set on the 3rd Candian Div sign with the additional triangle/strip below which I previously posted,there may be some details which we will never know the significance of .

Regards
Peter

Bill A 16-01-08 11:33 PM

Beach Commando
 
Mike, Thanks for posting the images. A nice assortment of uniforms and insignia.
A question about the employment of W Commando. The official account of Canadian naval operations indicates that the RCN Beach Commando had been held on the Isle of Wight in reserve from the week before D-Day until July 6th. On that date they were deployed to Juno. This is from the Far Distant Ships. I am not sure of the Beach Commando is the same as W Commando?

tynesideirish 17-01-08 03:17 PM

Peter, Unfortunately it's not mine. The flag is held on Merseyside somewhere. I believe it's in the Liverpool Museum? I collected the image a while ago when discussing something else. Thought I would share it.

Bill, W Commando was a RNC Beach Commando. Whether it deployed ahead of the main force alongside the Beach Groups or Helped clear the beach once ashore is for a Canadian historian to answer. Both functions where Beach Commando tasks. Regardless of H Hr +/- when they arrived. It was D Day and are heroes.

reinoudmilitary 27-02-08 08:28 PM

Very nice badges!

Are there any more original badges out there relating to RN commando's, beach signals, combened operations etc?


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