Emanuel School OTC
 

If anyone has a cap or collar would they be kind enough to measure it for me. I have a badge which is 35mm wide x 33mm high, bought as a collar but it appears a bit on the big side.
Many thanks.

Keith,
35 mm (N-S) x 31 mm (E-W)..

I'm sure mine is a cap badge.

Thanks Andy,

That's the one in KK? Mine is completely different, nickel with a portcullis on a torse with a small rose at the top. This is the same as the emblem on the gates of the current school in Wandsworth which I went past yesterday. Mine probably is a collar then or possibly a later CCF badge.

Emmanuel School OTC
 

By a strange coincidence I bought a similar badge in gold gilt with a brooch fitting. I do have one like the one Keith described with loops.

I put mine down as a sweetheart brooch, although I have never really encountered sweethearts to the OTC, do they exist?

Forum members views would be appreciated.

Rob

Emanuel OTC
 

As an ex-member of the Emanuel CCF (please note one M) I can confirm that in the early 1960s the CCF collar badge was simply a portcullis with a rose above as worn on the school blazer pocket - in white metal for officers and brass for cadets. I have some photos somewhereof the OTC in the 1930s and if I can find them I'll check what was being worn on the collars.

Postwarden

Thanks for the confirmation, I'll post a picture as soon as I have it. Apologies for the misspelling of the name, I ought to know better. We used to play Emanuel at football and cricket.

The officers certainly wore a Portcullis style badge pre WW1.


Pre 1908 the school cadet corps was part of the Queen's Westminster regt until it became an OTC.

Bosleys had this one:

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/au...2/lot-20856161

It's not the OTC but the school cap badge.

Old Emanuel School was just around the corner from the QWR HQ. The officer standing in the photo is wearing a QWR badge in his hat and as you say the others are wearing a portculis in theirs, one point to note that its not unknown for the QWR to have worn their collar badge, likewise a portcullis (crowned) in the headress.

I believe the standing officer pre-dates 1908 and is of the Cadet Corps rather than the OTC.

Alan,
The photo is dated 1911?

regards

Officer standing wears a QWR badge, possibly the RV, possibly 16th London, impossible to tell the difference as they were essentially the same badge, only the circle bearing different wording. The officer seated left has a QWR/16th London collar badge (no difference) in his peaked cap and the officer on the right is Royal Engineers.

Sorry should have been clearer I think he is still wearing the pre-1908 uniform of the QWR cadets.

The photo linked to in post #7, includes Lt. G. Burnett (seated viewer's left) in 1911. I have a photo of this man as a 2nd lieutenant (pre-dating the Emanuel School website photo) wearing the portcullis cap badge and 'OTC' collars.

Attachment 139144Attachment 139145Attachment 139146

Regards to all.

[Sincere thanks to Wilf (ORASOT) for initially identifying Burnett from my photograph].

Absolutely.

Certainly does not appear to be the Emanuel badge.

Andy

I believe that pre 1908 and the founding of the OTCs the school's cadet corps was affiliated to the QWR hence the use of their design.

http://www.emanuelalumni.org.uk/alum...old-ryley-page

The head is wearing the full sized QWR badge.

Alan,
You are correct with the QWR connection but not just pre 1908, I have been lucky enough to have been in contact with a man whose grandfather was head boy in 1915, he was in the school cadet corps and was there 4 years, the gentleman was kind enough to send me a scan of his cap badge to keep for my records, it is a bronzed QWR collar but on a slider. Photo attached for you. I have a bronze collar with a brooch fitting which I now take to be the school cadet corps badge, no other fixings seem to have ever been present, I will scan it and attach later.
Steve

From the few photos online it appears that school did not adopt the School OTC badge in 1908 but was still wearing QWR insignia in 1911-12 and possibly longer. This ties in with your Head boy's badge from circa 1911-15.

There is a very clear photo on the school website showing the cadets in 1908 belts and one master with war medals. It could be any time in the 1920s-late 1930s. All are wearing school badges including the officers.

https://emanuelschoolatwar.wordpress...rst-world-war/

Scroll down to the rugby headshot photos and you see the portcullis badge worn on a lapel. This may be your pinbacked 'collar'. Does yours have the SA scroll?

The badge worn on the lapel in the photo you link to Alan is the cap badge Keith mentioned with the small rose on top of the portcullis. I have attached a scan of the bronze badge I mentioned, as you can see the brooch is the original fixing so I'd say worn by the cadets, these were also worn on the lapel with a small C underneath them,
Steve

Another example of the lapel badge (scroll down to page 4) and this time worn by the prefects and the lapel and also on the school cap:

http://www.wandsworthhistory.org.uk/historian/ryley.pdf

Although we wore the Royal Fusiliers badge and hackle the Portcullis and Rose was still worn as the CCF collar badge in the late 1960s when I was in the CCF. ORs wore a brass version, officers a white metal.

The same metal badges were worn by the School's Prefect with embroidered versions on cap and blazer.

My battledress shows the collar badge worn.

Jon

Jon

Thank you for confirming that with such excellent photos.

Alan

Those interested in this thread might like to look at this photo
Jon

Online sources suggest that Wykeham Studios (whose name are on the photo of the young man in pre 1908 VB era pattern uniform) operated form 1910 onwards. As the photo clearly has the post 1908 OTC s/t, yet with the portcullis and crown cap and collar badges, it must date post 1910 but probably pre WW1. I would have thought khaki would have been in use by WW1.

Great photo and thanks for sharing the link.

What a great photo

Am I right in assuming the uniform is grey with red facings?

regards

Yes I believe that it reflects that worn by the QWR which the school had an affiliation to.

thankyou

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ctureid=150227

This one is 40mm by 40mm

Here is the school prefects badge, worn on lapel & cap, different to the QWR FSC/Collar badge,
Wilf

https://emanuelschoolatwar.files.wor...mm-g-f_134.jpg

If you count the voids there are 4x4 or 4x5 in this picture.

Again no SA scroll unlike the QWR badges,

I wasn't saying the badge in your link is the badge I show, your badge is the school OTC/CCF? badge (worn by prefects in a photo in the book) the badge I show is the school prefects badge, shown simply to illustrate the difference,I'll dig out a photo sent to me by the school,
Wilf

This is not a design that I have seen before but the slider is original so it's for a cap. I surmise it was an early OTC badge and worn after the QWR collar which is similar in design.

https://www.emanuel.org.uk/an-interv...ock-oe1933-44/

https://www.emanuel.org.uk/ken-harri...-of-the-1940s/

An interesting pair of recollections which show that the Emanuel JTC and later CCF adopted the Royal Fusiliers cap badge as early as 1942 by the dated photograph.

It would appear that Bosleys agree that it's an early OTC badge

Alan,

This photo may help. It appears to show the Rose and Portcullis without a scroll, a badge that was worn on the battledress collar in the 1960s.

Jon

An old thread but thought I would add this recently obtained card mounted photograph which appears to show a GM version of the Bronze badge shown in Alan's Album here. https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ctureid=150227

No Studio mark or date unfortunately.

Regards, Simon.

There is always a problem dating cadet uniforms as they often had obsolete uniforms but looking at the jacket and the shoulder patches I think that is is early and probably pre WW1.

Certainly has that look about it doesn't it.

Regards. Simon.

The photo does rather suggest that the brass ones were the first issue and they subsequently changed them to a bronze finish.