Victorian Royal naval officer's sword belt
 

Good afternoon

Here is one of my naval Victorian sword belts. I have two of these, one is without the braid so would, I imagine, be for an officer below the rank of lieutenant.

This belt is double braided, I think for a lieutenant. The belt buckle I think is a really nice example with nice detail. Some of the fittings are missing on this one but are present on my other.

Walton was established in 1838 in Gosport. Can anyone tell me more about this belt or the maker? When did they start to wear this Pattern?

Many thanks

Martyn

Victorian Royal Naval officer's sword belt
 

This is a Full Dress Sword Belt as worn by Sub Lieutenants and Lieutenants (the Undress Sword Belt was of plain black Morocco leather). The Full Dress belt was made of leather with a black silk webbing with two horizontal lines of plain gold embroidery.

The belt buckle is the Victorian Queen's Crown pattern worn between 1891 and 1901. Prior to 1891 the background on the buckle was lined and after 1891 it was plain. This was similar to Royal Navy officers buttons - prior to 1891 the buttons had a lined background but from that date onwards the background has been plain.

I'm afraid that I can't help with any details of the manufacturer but having tied down the date to a ten year period it should be possible to trace the company through a Portsmouth Business Directory of the 1890s.

Pete

Victorian Royal Naval officer's sword belt
 

You also asked when this pattern of belt was introduced. As I said before your example can be clearly dated to between 1891 and 1901 because of the design of the buckle.

However, this design of belt originally goes back to 1832 when a 1 1/2 inch waist belt of this design, incorporating two slings of different lengths was adopted. The Undress belt was of plain black patent leather and the Full Dress belt for Lieutenants had the two lines of gold embroidery.

In 1847 the two slings of different lengths were replaced by two short ones each 7 inches long and the width of the belt was increased to 1 3/4 inches, but in 1856 the old pattern was returned to, except that until 1891 the slings of Undress belts were round instead of flat. The only other change to the design of the belt during the Victorian period was the change in the design of the buckle discussed earlier.

Pete

Many thanks Pete you've answered all of my questions. I have some Victorian navy buttons and have noticed the difference in background but didn't make the connection with the buckle. It's nice that I have the two different dress belts as I didn't realise that the plain leather one was for undress uniform.

Regards
Martyn

Victorian Royal Naval officer's sword belt
 

Martyn,

This isn't really related to the belt but concerns the matter of lined backgrounds to buttons, etc. As stated naval officers lost the lined backgrounds to their buttons and belt plates in 1891. There is some evidence to suggest that it was intended that naval ratings lose the lined background to their buttons at the same time, but for some reason they didn't. Naval ratings have retained the lined background on their buttons right up to the present day. So the presence of lined backgrounds can't be used to date ratings buttons. Just wanted to make that clear in case I caused any confusion!

Pete

Many thanks Pete I've found that ratings buttons such as P.Os and chiefs didn't have rims around their buttons until 1888 so a non rimmed button dates from 1855 - 1888 and rimmed VR crown button from 1888 - 1901 .

Regards

Martyn

Victorian Royal Naval officer's sword belt
 

Hi Martyn

Totally right! Sorry - I just didn't want to cause any confusion. I thought you would probably know anyway!

Pete

Many thanks Pete.

I think button collecting is probably the best field of Militaria as it is complex and there is so much to learn. Every time I buy something I can spend ages on the net. Sometimes I find what I'm looking for but often the items are shrouded in mystery. I'm learning new things all the time especially on this site. People on this site especially have such a wealth if knowledge I think that it is better than a book. I only found out about that ratings buttons the other day purely by accident.

All the best

Martyn