RASC Plastic/Bakelite Badges (F&G)
 

Hiya guys n gals,

I think you guys had better start looking more closely at your RASC Plastic/Bakelite cap badges.

I picked up 4 x RASC (Plastic/Bakelite) cap badges at Woking on Sunday, amongst others, but I noticed that one of them was extremely different from the other 3.

I initially thought there were 3 x A. Stanley cap badges and the usual F&G type, but on closer inspection I noticed that the rear of one of the badges (A. Stanley's) had a different Makers Mark, ...... an upside down & rounded border (F&G) Fraser & Glass trade mark stamp.

I have attached the images of all 4 badges, but will be zeroing in on the F&G badges for your closer inspection.

It can be seen that there must have been 2 different dies used in the production of these F&G badges, and also a different "Trade Mark" stamp.


Both badges are different in size, (when held together)
The (Newer) smaller badge is (approx.) half the thickness of the (old) rounder cap badge.
Both badges are different in shape, 1 is a rounder star; as the new badge has a more pointed design to the rays of the star, similar to the A. Stanley design.
They have different designs on their faces, which also shows through to the designs to the rear.
Both crowns are different in design, one is thicker.
The GviR is also different on both badges, in their design.
The smaller badge has voiding to the crown and also more voiding inside the centre.
The larger badge has no voiding to the crown, and few voids to the centre of the badge.
They both have the same fixing method to the Blades to the rear of the badges, which is the F&G design.
Both badges have a different design of F&G "Trade Mark" or Stamp which is located to the rear of the crown, although the smaller badge has it upside down and to the left of the crown, which shows a lack of quality control.
Rounded badge has an "oval" design bordering the F&G stampWhereas the new badge has a "round" design bordering the F&G.

FBK

Here are some more images for you to look at;

Attachment 127635 Showing a side on view of both badges

Attachment 127636 Both badges cleaned up

Attachment 127637 Showing Voided & Unvoided areas

Attachment 127638 Showing MM (Rounded)

Attachment 127639 Showing MM (Oval)

Thank you

FBK

I have one of the oval marked ones, have to look out for the round one, now.

Marc

Ken,
well done for pointing this out, another to look for!

But they ain't Bakelite/Plastic, they're PLASTIC! ;)

Bakelite is a much harder and brittle substance!

Andy

Hiya Andy,

I agree with you and also call them "Plastic" as they were called "Plastic" in the beginning. These are softer than the Bakelite badges and bend under pressure.

But some others like to call them "Bakelite" and yes they were very hard & brittle and would snap when pressure is applied.

Ken

Ken,
I'm not sure Bakelite was ever used for issued badges!

Andy

No plastic economy badges were ever made of bakelite, they were all made of cellulose acetate. Thanks Ken for showing these, very interesting!

I've got a 'thicker version' F&G with round maker mark and a 'thinner version' without any marking, good to get confirmation it is a F&G badge as well. Pics to follow asap.

Rgds, Thomas.

Hiya Thomas,

I do believe that I also have an unmarked badge in my collection as well, I shall have to have a real good look now to find it. :)

I agree with you and Andy about the Plastic badges, but for some unknown reason I mentioned "Bakelite" as a cap badge ?? when we all know it was used to make other items, like telephones etc. Sorry for my misleading comments to all of you's.

Ken (The Fatboy)

Hi Ken, I've never seen anyone wear a telephone for a headdress badge, have you? Wouldn't mind seeing that though...
Here are my RASC plastics; the unmarked one now confirmed to be a Fraser & Glass as well, the marked F&G and the Alfred Stanley & Sons, Wallsall badge. I don't believe there are different obverse dies for Stanley badges, apart from all the different reverse markings, right?

Rgds, Thomas.

Guys,

Another interesting thread.

My plastic version is a Stanley but has a large '2 - A' after the address. What would be the significance of this?

GTB

Does it really matter what people call it if everyone knows what it means ? after all they aren't plastic either.

I thought that they were a form of plastic?

Hello guys n gals,

I found another F&G "Plastic" cap badge, without the F&G Mark but with the same mark as Thomas's above.

I will be showing a number of images on here of how to distinguish each badge in its own right, the most harder to find F&G being the hardest to acquire.

I think more research needs to be looked at in relation to this badge as I believe it to be a duff badge, which may have been rejected by the "Powers that be".

I would like to ensure that the badges we talk about are all mentioned in the correct sequences, so as to make sure we are all on the same page.

1. We all know that there are 3 badges

A. Alfred Stanley Walsall. A. 2

This badge is distinctive in the Maker Mark[/I][/B]

B. Fraser & Glass (F&G) (Round Star)

This badge is also distinctive in that the badge has a "round" star

C. Fraser & Glass(F&G) (Uneven Star)

This is a very Distinctive badge as there are a vast number of characteristics that make this badge stand out more than the rest.

I would also like to mention/suggest that I believe this badge is actually a makers mistake. I know it is controversial, but my findings will (I hope) convince you all as to why. But as I stated, "Further Research" is definitely needed. It states in many books and writings that 65,000 F&G badges were produced and there is no mention of there being 2 versions of the badge, although there is evidence in early books on the subject that Badge C. was know of.

My interest is going to be Badge C as we know of the other 2 badges and their characteristics.

I think you will be amazed, as I was, when I took a closer look at this badge and my astonishment when I realised (could this be a reject, picked up "after its" manufacture and release to units)
If this is the case then we might have a very rare manufacturers reject on our hands, indeed a rare type of badge.

I'm also glad that someone else has the exact same badge (Thomas above) to confirm & underline the differences that I have noticed.

There are 7 distinctive characteristics in Badge C. and they are as follows;

1. Crown
2. Leaves of the Wreath
3. The uneven "Left" side of the Star, it does not mirror the opposite side. (Major Mistake)
4. The top left rays of the star should have 5 rays, but only have "4" (Major Mistake)
4. The GviR Script, is completely different
5. There are more voids in the centre of this badge than all the others, this also includes the Crown.
6. The Belt Buckle.
7. The (Lower) Belt Strap at the bottom of the star.

All of these characteristics are identical in both of my badges and also in Thomas's, including the Voided areas.

FBK

Attachment 169148 Attachment 169149 Attachment 169150 Attachment 169151

Sorry forgot to attach the Image showing you where the areas of observation should be directed.
FBK

Attachment 169154

Ken, what you call maker marks in the reverse image are in my opinion just injection molding marks.

Rgds, Thomas.